The Guatemalan Civil War, Kalia Hobbs

Kalia Hobbs
AP World History

My topic within the greater Cold War is the Guatemalan Civil War. To see what the interviews are about and get a little background information about the people I interviewed, please see introductions below : )

-INTRODUCTIONS-

Mario Flores and Aurelio Hernandez are both men I met in Antigua, Guatemala. They are the Guatemalan program directors for Global Visionaries, a social justice and global leadership program that connects high school students in Seattle to high school students in Guatemala. The Seattle youth go to Guatemala and participate in work groups with the Chapin youth to better the situations of people in their country. I went on this trip last spring, volunteered in a hospital there, and met Mario and Aurelio who coordinate everything on the Guatemalan side of the program. They are both in their thirties. I know Oscar Garcia and Sandra Ordonez from the same program trip to Guatemala. They both are in their twenties and work for the program as youth leaders that helped us through our experiences in Antigua and the outskirts. Sandra Ordonez is actually one of my best friends and she is here in Seattle for a year, being a part of Earth Corps. I’m interviewing all of them about their personal and their family’s experiences and perspectives through the Guatemalan Civil War. They were all in Guatemala during the duration of the time they were alive and the war was still going on.



-INTERVIEWS-


-MARIO FLORES-

My first memory about this time were one night, my father was a professor and was teaching at night, that particular day I was like 7 year old when a bomb near a electric tower shouted the power for like an hour, I was really scared, wondering about my father, not knowing really what was going on, and not sure if he was going to come back home, at that time, teachers, professors, open minded people were at risk to be eliminated by the government. I was lucky because my entire family is from Easter Guatemala, were the war didn’t hit to much, the most affected area was western Guatemala (the high lands were the majority of the Mayan communities are).
My memory isn’t that good, because the were the worse of the war was happened, I was 4 or 5 years, I do remember once when I was in 3er grade there was a pacific demonstration in front of my school, that ended up with the police using tear gas and killing some people, we got in the basement of the school waiting for our families to pick us up.
The hardest part was that my father was a well know human right supporter, among our group of family friends, there were a few that decided to support the civil movement that at that time were call guerrilleros, (communist) a lot of friends ended up leaving the country because their lives were in danger, by the government.
Personally I think that the conditions that started the war In the first time, hasn’t changed, and even though that for my family and I we are able to walk around easily. I know that for a lot of Guatemalans in the rural areas the struggle continues. Not much difference in lifestyle from now, a few rich people and a lot of poverty , and now is pretty much the same, without the difference that now, you have a feeling of not being in war.
My experience of the war was since I was born up to when I was 15 year olds with the worse part when I was 4 to 5 years old. To be hones I thought that was going to be a normal person, again I was in a private school in Guatemala city , and wasn’t exposed to it as much as someone kid of my same age from the highlands.
I know that my father hosted guerilla fighters in his home in the city, before he get married, and also organizing school teacher to get in “Sindicatos” ( unions) Yea of cures I was worried that my father and family were going to be killed.
Can’t answer whether I think anything good came out of the war, because I think that there were a lot of lives that ended and no change was made; because in my opinion as a different of what happened in el Salvador the groups of power in this country didn’t share the power at all, and the conditions are pretty much the same.
The worst part was the not knowing when my father or family were going to be killed just because they were educated and opponents of the dictator’s governments.



-SANDRA ORDONEZ-

Well they told me that when the guerrillas arrived in San Antonio Aguas Calientes was very difficult for my parents because all the villagers had to travel to Antigua to go buy the market because there is no market in San Antonio. But it was very difficult to leave the village and one day my parents had to go to old to take my brother to the hospital because he was very sick and were out the guerrillas and the bus fell. They said they had to return to the park because they wanted to talk to all the people and my parents said they had to go to hospital, but can not leave the people returned to the park and listened to the guerrillas. They said they were in favor of the poor and only wanted food and did not say anything to the military when they reached the village after the talks that were forcing everyone to go home and could not talk to anyone and in each block two guerrillas were seeing that all people would live to their homes. They had like 5 minutes after arrived at my parents house when they heard shots in the mountains. They were scared and then when they knocked on the door but was so afraid to open the door and they were the soldiers who were coming from house to house because they thought that guerrillas were hiding in the houses and the soldiers entered the house and moved all things and asked who had said the guerrillas, but my dad told them that they had not gone to hear the talk of the guerrillas because they had a sick child, then to see that there was nothing in the house were my parents were wondering where the guerrillas were gone because the military came very fast, and my dad that the military has killed many children in the mountains because they were all farmers and had their crops and had to work but the military thought that the peasants were in that place to see all the people and tell the guerrillas that the military was getting into town and for that reason they were killed. Some children will die because Lifeguard Mountain dropped because they were killed like animals or with large sticks were beaten on the head to see that the child was dying or just cut their heads with machetes.
And they say that was very difficult life in that time because they knew who were good and that really helped the poor and also all the people could not leave their homes after 6 pm was a government order and if the military found someone on the street after 6 killed. Many people died because they had the need to go to buy something to eat in small shops and this not only happened in my town was all over the country and if they wanted go somewhere else had to carry their documents where there is no military documents and take them became part of the army, and many young people were part of the army but did not want to kill them otherwise.



-OSCAR GARCIA-

What little I remember because at that time I was about 6, 7, 8, or 9 years was very young and older people listened fearful that at some point the gerrilla or military showed up at the mountain since most of Abitante in that time were farmers and had their crops on the slopes of the volcano of water so they feared that some of these the aserles threatened to harm without giving them no food or water.
My family in this time of Gerra and lived in this town called San Pedro Las Huertas. Thank God in this part of the country not suffered much as in the departments of Quiche Totonicapan Chichicastemango and others but always my parents and other community members were very fearful.
My family not affected horribly but was left as in many Guatemalan families fear to see an armed soldier or a person because it doesn’t matter if it is good or bad person you’re going to protect, you will get hurt.
You've got a big fear and I think the time been blurred a little this fear.
One of the hard part now that I think my family is that at that time the army of Guatemala took to the streets of the town in specific areas at 7 pm or so and if they found a man who had an average age of 17 and 40 years they caught him and put it in trucks that transported them to where they were all soldiers and then trained to use arms when necessary to serves the country supposedly against guerrillas.
All this without the consent of parents or wives to people who had families, because the army does not care about this then I remember that all had to carry their identification that here in Guatemala are called identity card.
The concern in my family because my brother was bigger now 36 years, worked at the time of bread (to pan) then working at night and worked in Antigua so every night my mom was worried because people every morning the people said that a son or a father that came to the army.
Of the events I can remember one is that we were always hoping that my father returned from work because it is a farmer and was also afraid that my brother who at the time I was about 17 or 18 years it could lead the army. The lifestyle of the economic point of view I think it has changed a lot because it is having your shortage for most of the country and all the money that was spent for this war could better serve to feed many people and a very good idea. Hahaha food, but I think many people remain poor because the war he killed the parent or parents and destroyed their home or their harvest and troubled to start from scratch.



-AURELIO HERNANDEZ-

My family during the war was living in the same please where we leave now. The hard parts for my family and me was when I wanted to be free and the army said NO everything than my parents said. I remember when the army and the guerrilla was together nearby my village, was available to hear and see how they killed within them. The end of the war was important because we had a little development after that. During the war was a affair life, no free to talk about, after the war we can see and feel the development and more democracy
A normal day was to go to study and be care for the army, because the was under the streets watching youth to take and be part of the army. The war was from when I was 0 to 24 years old. At those ages I felt that my life was going to be terrible, watching many war events, people kill and people die. Everybody was trying to get the paz
Off course I did worry, and the most worry for me was the education specially for my education because on this time I was in the middle of my education process
There are many good things from the war but one of many is that now I really know why the wars happen and who is the author, or who are the people involved, because in the majorities of the wars same peoples are the responsible.
For me the worst part of the war was when I knew that one of my classmate was in the army and he was killed.
I remember many things, especially when the army caught me to be part of the army. My experience when the army caught me was a fear experience. I remember that day was Friday, I went to study like a normal day, when I leaved from the school I usually walked around 20 blocks from the school to take the bus to go back to my house at 7:00 p.m. I went with one of my best friend from the school, when we crossed the street because on the other side was the bus waiting for us, we saw the soldiers walking in our direction behind us and we started to run and tried to come in to the bus but just my friend get to be in the bus one of the soldiers caught me from my feet, my friend said to me “do not worry I am going to go to your house and let you parents know that the army caught you” because we did not have phone in our houses, then the army put me in a truck to go to the government office in Antigua Guatemala when I had to say all my personal description like name, age, occupation, etc. my house is located 5 kilometers away from Antigua and at 6:30 p.m. is the last bus from my village to Antigua you can imagine what my parents do to com to Antigua to see me because around 11:00 pm. My parents was outside of the government office just to say “son, we will do the impossible because you do not have to be in the army” then the army put me again in another big truck to go another place (military base) 20 kilometer away from Antigua Guatemala, I do not know how my parents came back home at this time 11:30 p.m. from Antigua (5 kilometers) they really love me because they did a lot things for me. So when I arrived to the military base the soldiers called us (a group of 50 youth) welcome to your house this is the man house, we did sleep that day because we was fear, at 5:00 a.m. one soldier said “wake up, is time to shower” cold water, everybody together, etc. then we went to take breakfast we make a big line because in this military base there was more youth from everywhere. During the day (Saturday) I saw many soldiers around without arms, feet, eye, etc. and some soldier said this is happened for your country, because they love their country (Guatemala) I was more fear with this….. during the night same thing, big line to take food. Next day around 2:00 p.m. the principal from the army called me and asked me “do you love your country? I said YES, do you want to serve to your country? I said YES, do you want to be part of the Army? I said NO, he asked why, I said because I am studding and I want to finished my school, and he said, you should study here and finished your school with us……. Etc. etc. but I said the type of education that I want is different and I would like to go back to my village, my school, my house, my family etc. then around 5:00 p.m. he said OK go outside but no walking, you have to go like a frog (for 5 blocks) at the entrance was my parents waiting for me without eat breakfast and lunch it was very sad, they (my parents) was making a lot things like contact the principal from my school on weekend, without phone numbers, without address of him…. Etc. I cannot believe what others things they did, because they wanted me back….
-REFLECTIONS-


1) What surprised you in these interviews?

Something that Mario told me before was that his father almost joined the guerilla which is really surprising. He remembers his father mulling over the decision and ultimately choosing to focus on his own family and taking care of his wife and children rather than trying to take care of the whole country of Guatemala. Something that he told me a long time ago was that, even ten years ago, you could still be killed for talking about the civil war. It was, and is, a very, very sensitive topic. Talking with him about it last year, when my group was in Guatemala, made him feel very uncomfortable and nervous because it was still such a fresh topic. I don’t feel like there’s anything in the United States that I fear having a conversation about and so this was an entirely new thought process for me. And it really hit home that he worries about talking about the Guatemalan Civil War due to his safety. It made the war feel so much closer. Which it is – it ended in 1996. Another incredibly surprising thing, from Aurelio’s interview, is that he was caught by the army but ended up getting away. This is such a rare occurrence that I was completely caught off guard and asked him follow up questions about his experience with that. I think the overall regular experiences and sights of the war were surprising, although somewhat expected from what I know of the Guatemalan Civil War.

2) How does what they experienced match – or differ from – what you read in the historical context?

My interviews and what I researched for the historical context definitely seems to match up. Everyone’s personal experience makes the war so much more “real” to me though. I read about all the disappearances, atrocities, killings, etc. but hearing stories from people who I know well and their experiences makes me even more sympathetic and interested in the topic. It seems like a not very well known topic but I truly enjoy learning as much as I can about it because it helps me gain a better idea of why Guatemala is the way it is.

3) If you were to expand this project, who else would be valuable to talk with? What other perspectives would you want to include?

If I was able to expand this project and had more time, I would want to talk with this Guatemalan man that I know in Seattle. He is a little bit older and was living in a Mayan village so I feel like his experience might be more intense. The issue was communication, because his English and my Spanish are both not skilled enough. He also works a lot and didn’t have time. I would also want to find someone that had a distinct role in the civil war. I think that the people I interviewed were very much so affected by the war, but they didn’t have a role in making it better or worse necessarily. I think that talking to someone in the Guerilla or talking to a CIA from the United States would be interesting. But I think the biggest problem is that the CIA tries to deny a lot of their involvement by whiting out certain government documents and such that have to do with Guatemala. So, I really doubt that someone from the CIA would talk to me.

4) What would you have wanted to do differently? Questions you should have asked, different people to interview, etc.

I don’t have any regrets that I could have controlled. I would have liked to interview in person but that just was not an option in any of the cases of the people who I interviewed.

5) In what ways do these interviews shed light on the giant worldwide topic of the Cold War?

These interviews are a personal perspective window and look into the effects of the Civil War and the giant worldwide topic of the Cold War because all these stories are a direct outcome of the communism vs. non-communism movements and rivalries going on around the world. The killings, pain, fear, and atrocities are all things that happened in Guatemala, but really, it was the rest of the world who was so concerned about communism. Mario touches briefly on the differences between the Guerilla and the government (Communist vs. non-communist), and the stories overall reflect the bigger, worldwide issue.


















-HISTORICAL CONTEXT-

The United States got involved with the Guatemalan Civil war, which began in 1960 and ended in 1996, with the main goal of stopping the growth of communism in the world. It was the United States government who originally came up with a plan to stop the guerilla through the CIA and with the financial help from the United Fruit Company (Wikipedia, “Guatemalan Civil War”). The United Fruit Company was a constant support throughout the war for the Guatemalan government, siding against the Mayans and guerilla. In the 1950’s, the U.S. helped with the overthrow of the democratically elected president in response to Nicaragua’s request for assistance (Doyle, Kornbluh, “CIA and Assassinations: The Guatemala 1954 Documents”, par. 9). The Guatemalan leader had communist tendencies which caused worry in nearby countries. The United States was more than delighted to help changing Guatemala’s political direction by assisting them in taking the president out of power. The United States was committed to countering the spread of communism and sent military support. Declassified CIA documents prove that the United States was a fundamental component in organizing, funding, and equipping the 1954 coup which toppled Guatemala's democratically elected government (Doyle, “The Guatemalan Military: What the U.S. Files Reveal”, par. 6). Professor of History, Stephen G. Rabe, writes in his book The Americas, "In destroying the popularly elected government of Jacobo Arbenz Guzman (1950-1954), the United States initiated a nearly four-decade-long cycle of terror and repression.”
The Guatemalan Civil War was part of the greater Cold War. There were tensions throughout the world with communist versus non-communist; the United States was trying to stop the spread (Doyle and Osorio, “U.S. Policy in Guatemala, 1966-1996”, par. 1, 4, 5, 6, 7, 9). The civil war in Guatemala was 36 years long ("Geography and Map of Guatemala."). Guatemala was filled with enormous injustice, torture, killings, disappearances, and more that ruined the lives of young and old alike, much of which was at the United States fault (Doyle, “The Guatemalan Military: What the U.S. Files Reveal”, par. 6).
The first phase of this war, in the 1950’s and 60’s, was the government against “middle class intellectuals and students”. This group was considered meek in comparison to the Guatemalan army who had been trained by the U.S. Army Trainers and the CIA. The second phase was in the 1960’s and was when “young officers and students of Guatemala’s Military School” started the official guerilla organization. Previous to the third phase, most of the violence stayed in the countryside, however when the third phase came in the 1970’s – there was fighting all throughout Guatemala, in cities and countryside. The fourth phase, in the 1980’s and on, is what changed Guatemala forever. This was a “phase of total war” where the Mayan population was especially targeted by the Guatemalan military (Wikipedia, “Guatemalan Civil War”). There were “countless massacres of Mayans, disappearances, and extrajudicial killings.” (Blanton, “The CIA in Latin America”, par. 9). Tactics and strategy were almost exclusively led by the U.S., based in the Panama Canal Zone. United States supported the government while Cuba and other communist states supported the guerilla (Wikipedia, “Guatemalan Civil War”).
Four main left wing guerilla groups (The Guerilla Army of the Poor, The Revolutionary Organization of Armed People, the Rebel Armed Forces, and the Guatemalan Labor Party) came together to form the Guatemalan National Revolutionary Unity in 1982, during the fourth phase of the war (Wikipedia, “Guatemalan Civil War”). During the same period as the union of the main left wing groups, extreme right wing groups tortured and murdered students, professionals, and peasants suspected of involvement with the guerilla. There were brutal assaults on civilian population. Tactics and strategy were almost exclusively led by the U.S., based in the Panama Canal Zone. United States supported the government while Cuba and other communist states supported the guerilla. The definition of a proxy war is a war that results when opposing powers use third parties as substitutes for fighting each other directly. With the United States on the government side and Cuba and others supporting the rebels, it seems reasonable to say this was a cold war proxy war with Cuba and the U.S. working through other areas and means to get at each other.
The war went on and on, with leaders coming in and out of power, and most Guatemalans needing to make the choice between the guerilla and the government.
By the end of the war, 200,000 people had been killed. The Guatemalan Civil War is described in the report of the Archbishop’s Office for Human Rights. “The office attributed almost 90% of the atrocities and over 400 massacres to the Guatemalan army (and paramilitary), and less than 5% of the atrocities to the guerillas (including 16 massacres).”
In a different report in 1999, it was stated that the government was responsible for 93% of the humans rights violations committed during the war and the guerillas were responsible for 3%. 83% of the victims were Mayan.
“Victims were not only deprived of their liberty arbitrarily, but they were almost always subjected to interrogation, accompanied by torture and cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment. In the majority of cases, the detainees were disappeared or executed.”
The civilians were victims of the acts of the government more often than the guerilla itself. The guerillas goal throughout the war was to fight back against the injustices, discrimination, and lack of opportunity that the Mayan people were faced with. The government wanted complete control and to make sure that the country didn’t turn communist.
The Humans Rights Watch has described the actions by the armed forces, mostly against unarmed civilians. For example, there was the massacre of over 160 civilians by military soldiers in the village of Las Dos Erres in 1982. The abuses included “burying some alive in the village well, killing infants by slamming their heads against walls, keeping young women alive to be raped over the course of three days. This was not an isolated incident. Rather it was one of over 400 massacres documented by the truth commission – some of which, according to the commission, constituted "acts of genocide."” (Wikipedia, “Guatemalan Civil War”). By the end of the war, 200,000 people had been killed, 40,000 disappeared, and around 1,000,000 refugees ("Geography and Map of Guatemala."; Doyle, Ball, Byrne, Manuel, “Guatemalan Death Squad Dossier: Internal Military Log Reveals Fate of 183 “Disappeared””, Par. 4). The Guatemalan Civil War lasted from 1960-1996, but the effects live on in noticeable ways today. Starting in the 1980’s, Guatemala started working towards more democratic politics. Democratic elections occurred in 1995. The peace process started in 1994 and the government and the guerilla signed agreements about human rights, the resettlement of people who had been displaced, the rights of the indigenous, and more (Doyle, “The Guatemalan Military: What the U.S. Files Reveal”, par. 1, 7; Short, “The International Politics of Post-Conflict Reconstruction in Guatemala”, Page 77, 78). Both the rebel organizations and the government signed documents declaring peace and ending the 36-year war in 1996 ("Geography and Map of Guatemala."; Short, “The International Politics of Post-Conflict Reconstruction in Guatemala”, Page 86). It seems that after over 30 years, it was decided by all that there had to be a stop. This terrible war has changed Guatemala forever. People still live in fear of violence and there are people who will be traumatized throughout the rest of their lives from the atrocities they experienced during the war (Short, “The International Politics of Post-Conflict Reconstruction in Guatemala”, Page 87). The Guatemalan Civil War is something never forgotten by the people of Guatemala because of the impact it still has today.



-BIBLIOGRAPHY-

"Geography and Map of Guatemala." Geography Home Page - Geography at About.com. Web. 16 June 2010. .

"Guatamala." St. John's College, University of British Columbia (UBC), Residential Graduate College. Web. 16 June 2010. .

"Guatemalan Civil War." Wikipedia, the Free Encyclopedia. Web. 16 June 2010. .

"Electronic Briefing Books." The George Washington University. Web. 16 June 2010. .

Blanton, Tom. "Electronic Briefing Book: The CIA in Latin America." The George Washington University. Web. 16 June 2010. .

Cook, Garrett W. Renewing the Maya World: Expressive Culture in a Highland Town. Austin: University of Texas, 2000. 118-121. Print.

Doyle, Kate. "The Guatemalan Military: What the U.S. Files Reveal." The George Washington University. Web. 16 June 2010. .

Doyle, Kate, Patrick Ball, Hugh Byrne, and Anne Manuel. "1999/05/20." The George Washington University. Web. 16 June 2010. .

Doyle, Kate, and Carlos Osorio. The George Washington University. Web. 16 June 2010. .

Doyle, Kate, and Peter Kornbluh. "Guatemala '54." The George Washington University. Web. 16 June 2010. .

Manz, Beatriz. Paradise in Ashes: a Guatemalan Journey of Courage, Terror, and Hope. Berkeley: University of California, 2004. 1-33. Print.

Short, Nicola. The International Politics of Post-conflict Reconstruction in Guatemala. New York: Palgrave Macmillan, 2007. 72-90. Print.

Living with Franco- Tamara Boyle

During the 1940’s, 50’s and 60’s , the world was suffering from the aftermath of WWII and the Cold War. While Spain had not directly been a part of WWII and was not experiencing the Cold War, it was not exempt from this suffering(Cierva pg 10). In 1936 Spain had its Civil War, and Franco, a dictator, came to power. Franco took away many of the peoples rights, enforced strict laws and punishments, and caused great confliction between Spain’s people from 1936 until his death in 1975.



Interview 1:

Juan Ignacio Arzak, My uncle;
During the times of Franco, my Uncle served in the Military, but also attended school and lived his childhood. He was born in ‘56 and dealt with almost 20 years under Franco’s rule.

(Not exact words as had to be translated from Spanish to English)

About how old were you when you began to develop your opinions on Franco? Was there a big event that shaped them?
-When I was in school, about 5 or 6 years old (1961 and 1962) the teachers tried to force us to go to Mass (National Catholicism), and taught us the "political doctrine" of the party of the dictator Franco(the only legal party was the "national movement", all the rest were illegal and went to jail if the police discovered you were apart of it) that to me and my classmates seemed bizarre, and we went on strike against the religion and political education classes. We never let the priest or teachers talk, and we stomped in the classes with our feet just to make noise. By the time I was 7 or 8 they stopped offering these classes, and now we never went to mass on Sundays instead we skipped it. They also took down the portraits of Franco and Jose Antonio (the leader of the “falange group” who was also a Fascist) and only left crosses, which eventually were taken down when we got to a democracy in 1978.
As a kid, at what age did you start to realize the impacts Franco had on your Family?
- Starting really young, with 5 or 6 years old I realized that no one spoke of the war against the Republic in 1936. Everyone was really scared to talk about politics and about what happened in Spain. The police and civil guard arrested young students and workers and they tortured them and killed them without mercy, and almost no one protested. It was a true embarrassment.
How exactly did Franco’s government affect your family?
-My father and his sisters had to be sent off with their family during the war against the Republic to live in London, now that the Nazis were bombing the cities in the Basque country and many kids died. They bombed Guernica and killed all of the population, which was the reason for Picasso’s famous painting titled “Guernica”.

In school did they teach you about Franco or not?
- They tried to , but we didn’t let them. (Chuckles)
What did you think about the fact that they had to teach you about religion in school?
- We were all against, and really the priest stopped coming because all of the students stopped attending.
When you discovered that you had to serve in the Military for two years, how did you feel?
-At that time it was required. I served in the military in 1979 and only served for one year. Many of my friends got out of doing it by pretending they were crazy. I didn’t want to do it, but I also didn’t want to get off for being crazy, so I did it.
During that year, did your opinions on Franco Change at all?
-I had always been against the franquisimo and against Franco, me and all my friends always had been against him.
What exactly did you have to do when you were in the Military?
-They showed us how to use arms of automatic guns and we did Military routines. That’s about all we did.
What are some of your strongest memories about your times in the Military?
- There isn’t one that is the best. But for the most part me and my friends just had a good time. We drank a lot and began to smoke everything.
What would happen to someone who protested against Franco and was serving in the Military?
-Same as everyone else, they took you to jail.
How many people that were serving time in the Military do you think actually wanted to be there?
-Someone here or there wanted to but the majority did not.
What do you think you would have done differently with life if you hadn’t of had to serve in the Military?
-I probably would have finished my studies in economies and studied something else also.
As a kid what did you want to be as an Adult? Did Franco destroy that possibility or not?
- Well I wanted to be a pilot or astronaut, but since I didn’t live in the USA or USSR, I couldn’t be astronaut, and to be a pilot I had to enter the army full time. So I did economics, and Franco no longer had any affect in my life.
Are you happy about your experience in the Military? Or do you wish it had never happened?
-It really was just a waste of time, it didn’t bring me any good.
When Franco died, how did you feel? Do you remember the exact day?
-He died November 20th 1975, that day was a day full of celebrations all over, everyone cheered for the end of the Franquismo.
Did you at any point almost get sent to jail?
-I actually was pretty lucky. The police only caught me once, I was 19, at a student protest against the dictatorship. They took me to the General Security Directorate Madrid, in the “Puerta del Sol” and they took my fingerprints and got my information but they didn’t take me to trial. Other friends didn’t have as much luck, and they had trials, staying many years in jail where the Audencia Nacional put them on trial.
My friend Rafa Serrano, who is also good friends with your mother, was at the Mental Asylum of Leganes for two years for pretending to be crazy in order to not go to the Military. But then my friend Alfonso Romano went the acting crazy route, but they didn’t let him get out of his Military Duties. Other friends of mine went to Jail for advertising illegal political parties, normally that of the Left. And others for union activity in businesses, and trade unions which were also banned. Many theater plays were also prohibited, and when they were showing, the police came and kicked us out brutaly of the event, and arrested the actors and musicians. The Police entered the Universities and kicked us out of assemblies, and took some to the bus stops where sometimes they asked us for our DNI, National document of Identity.
All of this made us have to go undercover, protest in ways that nobody knew what we were doing, not even our family, and we always were scared that they police were following us. We would have meetings in bars and in parks. We printed pamphlets and magazines with “manibela” offset machines. We had to lead a life of Secrecy
(Iñaki Arzak taking off his military clothes for the last time)



Interview 2;
Belen Gavela;
Belen was a Student protester who was sent to jail and ended up leaving Spain to study in France. Her experience gives us a great view of how insane Franco’s ruling was.

Her Story;

1971-72 Was my first year of university, in sciences (to go for physics). I was elected the representative of the class.
They were agitated times, the "Juicio de Burgos" had taken place, the university was very active on antifranquist activities. From the academic representation one passed automatically to general leadership.
I was organizing and leading often assemblies (which lasted the time that the police took to decide to enter), surprise demonstrations in the center of Madrid, etc.


All along this time, I met people of different political orientations, and at some point in the middle of the year I entered the Spanish communist party, which was very active (indeed the only really very active one) in the fight against Franco and advocated for a transition to a democratic Spain.

The students, towards the end of that academic year, decided in general assemblies not to do the final exams as protest for the political situation.
At that point, signaled out by a professor as one of the leaders of the student's movement, who specially hated another student and I because we did not fit his idea and claim that "los rojos son malos estudiantes" (red supporters are bad students) (and also I suppose because of the information that the police was continually gathering), the political police came to look for me at my home in the middle of one night

I was taken to police headquarters in Plaza del Sol, which is in the center of Madrid, to the underground sector in an isolated cell.. or not so isolated, as the guardians themselves wanted to be kind to such a young 17 year old girl and gave some comfort. These common-place policeman must have recognized somehow that it did not make any sense such security measures for such a young girl, etc.

The interrogations were hard. I was basically not allowed to sleep. It was harsh, they only gave me a cover (no bed or mattress, just a cover); also I can still smell the stink of the "food" they gave on a wooden bowl which came accompanied by a wooden spoon.

Their plan was to pass me directly to jail (Carabanchel). Many times students would bring food for me to the headquarters, and asked it be delivered to me.

The university went into complete stop because of my arrest and that of a leader of the upper courses. There are too many horrors of the three days under custody, but instead of taking me to jail as planned, in view of the situation on campus they let me free...
I was allowed to pass the first year exams in September accompanied by the police , but after that they forbade me forever to study in any university in Spain or set foot on any campus without being accompanied by the police.
And they retired my passport so that I could not leave the country.
They also put an enormous fine equivalent to many months of jail, but this was opposed by lawyers and entered a never completed process, which was needed because as a young student, I did not have much money.


I could never go back to school in university, but I kept studying expecting that somehow things would ease up.
During the second year at some point things went a tiny bit softer and, although I was not allowed to go freely on campus, they allowed me to go to pass special exams after the end of term, with previous police permission and of course they had to accompany me.

I must say that the second year and the next years I benefited from an amazing exercise of solidarity: the students of my class, day after day through the years, would by turns and almost daily, give me copies of their notes and exercises taken in class, so that I could study on my own and prepare for my personalized exams. 2-3 times/week I would make an evening appointment with one or the other of the students and receive those notes.
In this way I managed to not loose any of the 5 years that last the physics studies in fact, in 1976.

During my last university year I applied for and got a fellowship of the French government to do the doctorate-courses in Paris.... but I still had no passport, which I had kept asking for and being denied.
By some miraculous coincidence, or some fluctuation of the system -I don't really know, towards the last summer of my university studies they finally gave me a passport... and by next fall I was in Paris starting a new period in my life, whose professional focus is particle physics research.
I got a permanent position in France (CNRS), was postdoc in USA, Cern, etc., had other positions and finally decided to take up a full professorship in Madrid, in the same university where I had studied (Universidad Autonoma de Madrid).



Interview 3;
Maria Elena Arzac, My mother.
Her view on Franco’s dynasty is that of a family member and child growing up under his rule. She was born in 57’ spending her childhood growing up with a leader she could never look up to.

How old were you when you began to realize the effects of Franco on your family? What happened?
-In my teens, it was when I began to watch the news about the student protests. My family had always been against him and we always talked about it at dinner.
What effects did he have on your family life?
My fathers Family lost everything that they had during the war, and Franco was the cause of the war. My fathers father had a successful taxi company that Franco took away, but im not sure why except that he hated the Basques, and the basques hated him. My uncles left Spain with their money in order to keep it, but my grandfather didn’t, and that was why they lost everything.
What was the reason they took everything away?
- Franco punished more the Basques and the Catalans because they weren’t conforming to his view of Spanish life. They were the groups of people most against his nationalistic views, and they were giving him the hardest time. My fathers family was Basque.
As a kid, what did you experience from Franco’s laws?
-I went to church every Sunday. It wasn’t something I questioned it was just something that everybody did without thinking. It wasn’t until I was 14 that I actually got to thinking about it and decided that it was stupid. My family was ok with it because they, especially my father, had no interest in the church.
Would you have chosen different life path do you think without Franco?
-Hypothetically yes. They didn’t want to let me go to the university, only my brother. They wanted to make me start working at 16/17. I started working at 18.
What were your parents work lives during Franco?
- My mother never worked when I was alive. Franco set the Catholic values for families, with the woman living the housewife life. Sometimes they worked for a while before getting married, but for the most part they stayed home doing the motherly duties, cleaning and cooking. Before the war, when the Republic was in control, it was more probable woman worked. They also had many more rights. They could marry whoever they wanted, they could believe whatever they wanted, and divorce whoever they wanted. My father was a car conditioner vender, and a salesman, selling industrial Machinery.
I see you spell your name “Arzac” differently than your brother, why is this?
- Franco prohibited the use of all the Basque language. In basque the letter C does not exist, so he changed my families last name to Arzak with a C. My brothers official name has a C but he writes it with a K because that is the way he believes it should be.
How did it affect your social life as a kid/teen growing up? Did it limit you in anyways?
- Politics were never spoke of, and that was why I didn’t know about it or have an opinion until I was 14. In the streets it was unspoken, unless it was in favor in Franco. Even when talking to my family we had to be very careful when talking politics because maybe a neighbor could hear or some outsider, and we would get reported.
Did you ever attend any Protests? How involved were you?
- Only towards the end, when Franco was dying and there was the transition from Franco to a democracy was when the protests really started. I was always scared but excited, there were police chasing after you on horses with guns. They shot rubber bullets and let out gas. In almost every protest at least some student died. The protesters would light cars on fire, to try to stop the police from going any further.
I noticed that you and your sister are both named Maria. But we call you by your middle name. Why is this?
Franco didn’t let anybody register any names that were not in the bible. If you wanted to name your child any name that isn’t referred to in the bible, you had to put Maria in front for girls, and Jose or Juan in front for boys. Also if the middle name you wanted to give your child was at all Basque or Catalan, he would not allow it and your child could not be registered with that name.
You’re brother told me about how you’re friends pretended to be mentally insane in order to escape the required military service. What did you think about this?
Our friend Rafa was always a ‘different’ person, so it wasn’t surprising that they accepted him. I think he may have had Bipolar disorder, and that may be why he acted different, and accepted that he was mentally insane. We visited him occasionally and would walk in the garden and talk.
Was security tight? Did you have to limit your conversation because he was pretending to be crazy?
- No we just walked alone around the garden. And sometimes we even escaped with him to go out and have a drink. It was always just something funny not anything we thought of as a serious issue. We never got caught and he always managed to get back safely.( She chuckles)
What happened to him after he was released?
He had a relatively normal life. As normal as a life that Rafa could have. After the two years he was let out as if nothing had happened. I didn’t even remember that had happened until you brought it up.
Men had to serve in the military, was there anything Females had to do?
In order to get our passport, we had to do “Social Services” What I did was work in the school library for free for a year. You had to do the “Canastilla” which is sewing the clothes for a first newborn baby. I honestly had no idea why I had to do it, I just knew that I had to. I sewed my “Canastilla” out of tissue paper. If you didn’t do another thing, like how I worked in the library, you had to make it out of cloth, for a real baby to wear. If you didn’t, you had to make the “Canastilla‘, and something else that I cant remember, but you had to do something else. Also in school, it was required that woman take a class to learn how to sew. I guess to prepare us for the “Canastilla”(she laughs).
How did you deal with Franco’s death in 1975?
- We celebrated with Champagne. There really were parties everywhere, in the streets in peoples houses. We went to our Neighborhood association where everyone was very politically opinionated, who were mostly socialist and communist, and my friends and family got together to celebrate the ending of the Dictatorship.