As my topic is quite self explanatory, so are the interviews. These are their thoughts and memories on the event. My point in these interviews is to hopefully share the view of Iranians who lived during the revolution: why there is not a day in their lives that the revolution does not affect them.
Abbas Milani
When did you leave Iran? Why at this time? Was it easy or hard?
I lived in Tehran and was teaching at Tehran University until then. I was not allowed to teach, I was what is called Mamnu-al-Tadris means you are forbidden from teaching and I was Mamnu-al-Ghalam, I was forbidden from publishing and I had a son who was about to become aware there was a war going on, by then he was five years old and I decided that this is no longer a place for me to stay so I left. I left from the airport, I left legally, on an invitation to come and give a talk in the United States and I never went back.
What was your opinion of the Shah’s Government?
Well it depends when you ask because I was, at the time, part of the opposition to the Shah, this was before the revolution. And then when I came out of Iran, and in fact when I, because I was in prison for a while during the Shah, I was in prison for a year as an opponent of the Shah. My opinion then was that I was a critic of the Shah but in later years I look at the day not as an ideology as a political activist but I try to look at it as a scholar, so your view completely your point of departure changes when you look at things in a non-ideological way. So my view now is very different than my view then.
When you were in Iran during the Shah’s government, and you opposed him, did you protest, or were you involved in any of these revolutionary anti-Shah events?
Yes I was, that is why I went to prison, I was considered as part of an organized opposition to him. I was at the university, a professor at the university when they arrested me and they thought that I talked about things I shouldn’t talk about and that I have contacts with people that I should not have contacts with. When demonstrations began, I shouldn’t have participated in some of them.
How did you feel when the revolution began gathering steam?
Well when it began to gather steam, I was very worried about what would happen because I had been in prison with a lot of the people who were becoming the leaders of the revolution. Six months of that year, I told you I was in prison. I was with the future leaders of the revolution: Montazeri, Rafsanjani, Talaghani and I knew that they were not afraid to deliver democracy, so I, even before the fall of the Shah, I was worried, If I had my wish, my wish would have been to Dr. Sadighi, he was a very prominent professor, and opponent of the Shah but who decided to form a cabinet and he couldn’t, my wish would have been for him to succeed, but by then the avalanche was coming and you were not part of the avalanche all you could do is get out of its way. And I was already not part of the avalanche, because I knew it to be an avalanche, I knew what was coming was not freedom, but a form of very dangerous despotism.
What did you think of Khomeini? Did your opinion of him ever change?
Well, I have read some of Khomeini’s writings, I think not too many people had and I knew that he was not what he pretended to be, and the weeks and the months before the revolution, when he was in Paris, he pretended to be a democrat, a Ghandi type, a Mandela type, but he was in fact very power hungry and he had a long to create a ferical despotism in Iran, and when he came when he had the chance, he created what he wanted, and not what he had promised.
What do you think was the role of the US in the changeover from the Shah to Khomeini? Obviously, the Shah was pro-America, but did they play the supporting role they should have played? In other words, the Shah delivered, but did America? Was there any decision to not support the Shah due to a better interest in the US economy or oil companies? In other words, was there any point where the United States supported the come-back of Khomeini?
I don’t believe that. I recently wrote a book on the Shah, and it will come out in six months, so I’ve been very much graveling with that question. I don’t think so, I don’t think they [US] created the revolution, as the Shah believes. But on November, they decided the Shah was politically too weak, he was emotionally a wreck, physically a wreck, and they decided that he can’t stay. At that time they decided that they should work to make peace with the Khomeini camp. Up to November, I don’t think they had any idea how bad the situation was, they did not, in my view, plan to get rid of the Shah, because the Shah was very good for them. On oil, he fought them very bravely, there is no doubt about that, but on the whole, he sold and bought a lot of arms, he fought against the communists, both at home and abroad, and whatever oil money he got, he eventually re-invested in the West, so it is hard to imagine, for me, why anyone in the West, or in Israel, would have any interest in getting rid of the Shah. But once the movement began to gather steam, America is after America’s interest, so they decided the Shah can’t stay anymore, so once they made that decision, then they made their pact with the opposition and contacted Khomeini, and the rest is history.
Did you see any good sides to the revolution? Did Iran benefit in any ways? I don’t think so, I think overall, Iran has been a big loser. I think if the revolution had remained true to its promise, and that is it should have been democracy, that it has remained a democracy, then Iran would be in a much different situation today. I think Iran would be far ahead of where Turkey is today. The revolution completely aborted that, it forced into exile, two three million of some of the countries- it has brought a lot of damage to the people who live inside Iran, and on the whole, I think it was not, if I had to do the calculation, I would say that Iran has been the loser, not the winner.
You said the country would be in a much different, better situation if the revolution was true to its word. Was Iran really heading towards progress before the revolution took place?
Well, it depends what you mean by progress, the problem was that the Shah was creating progress at a socio-economic level, people were living better, with more income, there was a bigger middle class, but he was not agreeing to have more democracy, and that came back to haunt him. The country was progressing in every way except democracy, and when you progress in every way, the need for democracy is doubled, it isn’t weakened, and the Shah just didn’t understand this, or understood it too late.
What was it like living in Iran with the SAVAK?
Well, the assumption about SAVAK is that it is very powerful, and I think the assumption had been more powerful than they in fact were, because we assume that in every class SAVAK entered and they were, in the late sixties, early seventies, they were very brutal, there were a lot of torture in prison, there was censorship at every level which made it very clear that SAVAK [unclear]. So they were a very prominent presence. Of course, they were fortunate that they were succeeded by this regime. So in comparison with this regime, what SAVAK did looks much less brutal police [unclear] these guys have made the prisons, made torture, made more people killed, and all of these things in numbers much larger than anything SAVAK did. But when you had to live under it, when you had to teach under it, the power and the pressure was considerable.
Any thoughts on President Ahmadinejad?
I think he is a populist, I think he is extremely bad for Iran, bad for Iran’s image, bad for Iran’s long term interest, and I think he’s done a great deal of damage to the countries reputation, to the countries rather good history of living amicably with the Jews in Iran, for example. So he has taken a country which had a very defendable record, and made it one of the most anti-Semitic countries in the world, so on the whole, he has been a disaster.
Thank you so much for taking out so much time from your busy schedule, I just have one more question and it’s just do you ever go back to Iran?
No, I cannot leave in years because the government has decided that I have worked against them and I have published things that they don’t like so it has become impossible for me to go. I can go to be more precise but I don’t think I can get out again.
If you could, would you want to go back?
Absolutely… I still dream about Iran. I would go in an instant if I thought that I could go and either live there, really, or I could go and visit. In both cases I would do it in an instant.
Shahram Moghadamand and His Mother
When did you leave Iran?
We left Iran 14 years ago in 1996 because my husband died. My first priority was my family, and I thought it would be better to come to the US, where my sun lived on his own. We are very family oriented people.
What was your opinion of the Shah’s Government?
The Shah’s government was good, but only for the minority of the people. Good things came from it, for example education. After a while, arrogance takes over. Before the Shah there were no problems, when the US found the Shah useless, they left him.
What did it feel like when the revolution began gathering steam?
Well, everyone thought what they were doing was for the best. Everyone was up to teeth dependent on the South. My father was a civil engineer, but after the regime changed, he worked as an appraiser for the ministry of justice.
What do you think of Khomeini?
We are not followers of Khomeini, and think that he was not qualified to be in the position he was.
Do you often go back to Iran?
Yes. We go there a lot because everyone in our family lives there. There are no worries in Tehran. Everyone respects me.
Did you see any good sides to the revolution? Did Iran benefit in any ways?
They benefitted that they are still there. It is a lawless country, so there are lots of problems. The current regime tries to make things in order. Try to take care of rural, and bring wealth to the center. Before the Shah became filthy rich, the rest of the country was poor. Now the country is very self-sufficient, in agriculture developments, for example. Whenever I go there, I can go to the café, listen to the orchestra group that plays on TV also performs for the public live and start dancing right there. I could constantly go to parties, wearing the best clothes under my cover and when I get there, I take it off. Presently, things are cooled down. In the parks, both girls and boys play together. The Green Group is more reformed. Only in the US do they exaggerated the bad things in Iran.
During the Shah, there were only two universities in the country. Now there are plenty universities, every remote village have drinking water and all the small city has many means of social comforts and even libraries. People are all educated, even the poor and everyone has electricity, even in small villages. There are also many inventors, especially in the younger generations (ages 13-20). During the Shah, this kind of thing did not exist. Even the highways and roadways were done after the revolution. A lot of good things came for the people. The subway system is one of the best deal in the world and all made by the Iranians. Here in US, some people cannot have insurance, in Iran, every individual had insurance for free. After problems faced by superpowers, Iran tried to be self-sufficient in every field. Access to nuclear energy made Iran the superpower of the Middle East. Countries didn’t buy from the US, but from Iran, thus a threat to superpowers.
What was it like living in Iran with the SAVAK?
During the SAVAK, you couldn’t even talk to someone about your problems. It was like the secret service is here. They controlled everything, which made people discontent. SAVAK was quite in control. With this regime, you can talk freely. Anyone who is the donkey, we will become the saddle, we just want to live our life. If there are no troubles, you can have a peaceful life.
What do you think of President Ahmadinejad?
He’s not bad. He is fair and does a lot of good for the country. Whatever bad things Americans want to say about him, we know he is doing good things. He is good for Iran, but maybe not the US. Everybody thinks he is stupid, but he is actually very smart. He was not from a wealthy family, which is why he wants wealth to spread to the poor first then to the wealthy. This is why there has been so much development while he’s been in the government.
What do you believe led to the downfall of the Shah?
The Shah was left behind because he was not interested in Iran, but instead oil. If the US kept Iran as an ally, they would have access to the entire Middle East. In public, they pretend not to get along (Iran and the US). Also, the Shah became useless and unstable, which the Americans realized, so they let him go.
Anonymous
When did you leave Iran? Why did you choose this time to leave?
I left Iran in 1972, I was an exchange student during the Shah’s regime. I was a member of an elite club of exchange students coming to the US. The selection process and examination was very big process, it was a high privilege to come. It was easier to come to America because the Shah was having troubles, so it made it easier to come. I went through a very elaborate selection. It was a prosperous time; Americans were all over living in Iran. My first job after high school was in an American Embassy in Iran. There were so many Americans in Iran, there was no sign of dislike, and they would come to my house. Also, my brother was in the US air force. I was part of the Shah’s westernization plan, to learn western ideas of the US and bring them back.
What was your opinion of the Shah’s Government?
I thought that he was kind of repressive. I didn’t like the fact that you had to look at his pictures, of his wife and son everyday at school. The White Revolution was forced a lot on the young population, and you had to read it, and I didn’t like how it was mandatory by the Shah.
What role did you play in the Revolution?
I was a student protestor. Actually I learned more about his brutality in the US; in Iran he had a lot of covers. But coming here, I heard the other stories.
What did it feel like when the revolution began gathering steam?
I was in, I used to be in a weekly contact with my family (from the US) and I had my best friend who was part of the telephone company, so he usually called once a week. He called and said he’s not going to call anymore because Khomeini was coming back. I felt like w\he was switching sides/ difficult because I was in the US, and at LSU, They decided to expel all students from the school. American students demonstrated almost daily. It was scary. I was also approached by a CIA recruiter and asked if I wanted to go back, his name was Richard Woods from the CIA office in Texas. They had approached me before but he called me and asked.
I was in Iran in 1977, electricity was going off for hours, there was signs of.. the Shah spoke on TV and talked of changes, he apologized and promised to fight corruption. He had his prime minister reprimanded.
What were you doing before the Shah fled?
I was in constant contact with my friend at the telecommunication. He was switch board operator, so I was in constant contact. He gave me information, so I could keep up with what was going on inside. I was a nervous wreck, worrying about my family. My oldest brother got out, he was safe. He left right before. My other brother was still there. I was just worrying, you know. What was going to happen? Was the military going to get involved?
Do you often go back to Iran?
Yeah, I worried during the war. Every day I thought about the war. I did everything I could to inform and help. A lot of my friends went to the war and got killed. Sometimes I would hear that one got killed. It was a very depressive times. I did the most I could to the best of my abilities. It was not a matter of religion it was about national pride, I had good friends you know and many of them went to the front and died. The only thing left of them is their names on their street or the alley they lived on. It was very sad for me to see them gone, some of them were not even religious, I passed by their houses while sometime crying but I could not face their mothers. They were hitting Iran with the Scude missiles, 10, 20, 300 a day. So I really worried. I brought my mother here in 1985, but she didn’t want to stay. She stayed with me for a while in New Orleans, and told me about a lot of them, you know. I joined the US military…I don’t want to talk anymore…
What do you think of Khomeini?
I listened to him in a small weekly religious speaking he used to give when I was little younger than you. He was for hire, people pay money and he spoke. I wasn’t impressed with him. He was an ambiguous character for me. I didn’t like his style, he was too harsh and angery.. I just didn’t know where he came from, he did those things and was exiled but I don’t know where he came from. The shah called him and his group the black demons or the dark demons. I just think he was over exaggerated and global media found him interesting because he attracted an audience specially the BBC. When he introduced to American people for the first time on special ABC news and the whole program was sponsored by Exxon. I also think he was a double-talker. He caused a lot of you know, a lot of people died. Close to one million died in the war not to mention the massive revolutionary style speedy trials of some very innocent people. A lot of my best friends I went to high school with and those from my neighborhood, my neighborhood were a big participants of the revolution, some of the initial ones. Because it was right under the palace, the name was changed to the revolutionary guards because so many of the neighborhood kids got killed It was a wealthy neighborhood, a lot of Americans lived there. It was close to an American military installation and the Gulf District Corps of American Engineers called ARMISH MAG IN Saltanat-abad. He also caused a big Diaspora, by telling people to leave if they didn’t like his ideas, which I didn’t like. As a leader you can’t just tell people to leave their birth place. More two million Iranian of the best quality left the country and with them took all the expertise not to mention the wealth, the national wealth. They almost broke the back bone of the Iranian economy. Sometimes I think to myself if he was a blessing or a …
Did you see any good sides to the revolution? Did Iran benefit at all?
Well, the things I told you with the Shah, he always had this image of no hope for the future because of the absolute monarchy is always there. It was very depressive that you saw his son, and you had no chance of dreaming of becoming the leader of your country in the future, that dream was not there imagine that. The revolution detached this umbilical card. I see it as a process towards progress, you have to pay a price in order to reach a true form of democracy, and maybe this was the process. The monarchy is gone, because it just doesn’t make sense. When I was your age, I just didn’t understand it, I wanted a presidency like they have now, so in high school you can think about becoming president. Like Ahmedinejad, he is not connected to anyone; he went to a normal school. As bad as he may look to the outside, but I see it as a sign of hope. Took Americans 200 years and a civil war and half million death you know? Also, it brought lots of self-sufficiency to Iranians, they learned to rely on themselves. More school, hospitals, they trained their own doctors. That was unheard of before, the apples and oranges came from the US. These are the good things from the revolution sort of like an evolution towards democracy. The only thing is the situation with the women, they were and still are the biggest victims who are forced to wear the head covering, which I think should be optional. I think if they did this, they would have 85% popularity, because that takes over. International image is oppression, but they are not. A lot of women don’t want to cover up, and they should only do it if they want to.
What was it like living in Iran with the SAVAK?
I was in high school and I witnessed that I was in the office next to the principle, and they were questioning him. He was a very fair principle, he was very nervous, and they asked him things about the SAVAK, and not long after that we got a new principle, who was very dictator-like, very harsh and pro government. He would tell you “I will have you expelled!” Whereas the other one was kind always attended to the needs of the students. There was a rumor that the replacement principle was a SAVAK agent. It was scary. However, at the same time three or four of my brothers friends were SAVAK agents. They told their stories when they came to my house, they were very intimidating, they drove nice cars, lived in nice houses. If you start checking on high schoolers, that is not good, to me that is a sign of weakness. That I saw, and I did not like it. I also remember another teacher taken away who said something about the regime in class, because a kid whose dad was a SAVK agent told his dad, and he got taken away. The kids were going to be SAVAK, it was like a culty, secret organization of these families. They could do what they wanted- live relaxed, and get grades for their kids. It was a very intimidating thing. At the same time though, if you knew them, they were good connections. When I was going to come to USA as a exchange student, I was getting my passport, but there were difficulties. My brother talked to his SAVAK friend and found out there was a corrupt person who was giving away passports with different names. He had my passport in his pocket. The connection got things done, like secret pass because they had a lot of privilege.
Do you think the United States played a role in the changeover from the Shah to Khomeini?
I think the US was the main factor. The shah was the best friend America ever had. US brought him back to power with operation Ajax. They were best friends, but the US betrayed them, especially president Carter who sold them out. American news media and Exxon Oil did not like the Shah and I think they definitely played a big role. They could have saved him.
What do you believe lead to the downfall of the Shah?
Basically stuff I said, it was his lack of understanding the people of Iran. He never understood them and was out of touch, grandeur and megalomaniac. His father was much more intelligent and in touch with the people. He didn’t understand the Iranian people and miscalculated. I don’t know if he was a friend of the Iranian people, maybe he knew they were going to send him out again. I just think hopelessness, and depressive when thought about, the helicopters going over. This elaborate twice year Europe trips, it was just too much. Just out of touchiness and non understanding. He was a pompous incompetent man who just liked military parades. He was like a kid who never grew up, he liked tanks and parades. He didn’t know how to manage. After all what would you expect from a man who sold out his own father?
Thoughts on President Ahmadinejad?
Despite negative, he is a very popular man who is very well liked by poor and working class, the daily people. He is very well liked because he takes care of their affairs. He doesn’t have much, he lives in a very simple house. He went to Tehran University during the shah’s regime, he was the mayor of Tehran for a while and would sweep the streets sometime by joining the street sweepers. He is very well read and has a good oratory power, he puts the speeches and argues well. He is not pretentious, and he comes from a Jewish background, I think he is a sign of hope for kids who aren’t wealthy that they can be president one day just like him. In comparison to presidents before: Banisader, Rafsanjani, both corrupt, Khatami very pretentious in his actions and concerned about his image, he wasn’t good either. I just don’t like to see a cleric with his clock as a president. He is by far the best president they have elected. What you see is what you get, he is honest. I think he is a sign of hope especially for average kids.
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International Education-Adiza Ameh
Name: Estella Berkurst
Date: June 12, 2010
Place of current residence: Seattle, WA
Place of past residence: Philippines
NOTE: This woman may actually be the sweetest old lady I’ve ever met.
What level of education did you reach?
I reached high school, through my first year.
Why didn’t you finish it?
I didn’t finish it because I was working at my beauty shop in the Philippines.
Oh, you owned a beauty shop? Did you own it by yourself?
Yes, I did.
Did you get a lot of business?
Yeah, since the shop was close to my school, I got a lot of customers. I did manicures, facial massages, pedicures, and permanents as well.
What did you study in?
I graduated in hair science.
(I don’t actually know if this was true since she didn’t finish high school)
Did you like high school?
No, not very much I wanted to help my mother and I just wanted to so hair./
Was high school hard?
No, not hard, it was just boring, I wanted to do hair and help my family out and in addition school was expensive and since I was above the 6th grade, I had to pay for my education.
What did you do when you came to the U.S.?
I worked as a seamstress when I first got here. I immediately came to Seattle. I married my pen pal whom I was writing to in the Philippines, and that’s why I came to the U.S. Then I got a divorce because he drank too much.
Did you want to finish high school here, or go to college?
No, I didn’t want to go to school here, I just wanted to go to work and make enough money to live off of. I didn’t know anyone here but my husband, I didn’t know very much English and I struggled to adjust to the American lifestyle.
Did your mom want you to continue school in the Philippines?
Yes, she did, but she knew that we didn’t have enough money to send me to school and support the family at the same time, so she made me quit going to school. I had a sister who wanted to become a teacher, but she got married in the Philippines, and had two children and she didn’t get to fulfill her wishes of going to school and working.
If you had more money, would you have continued your education?
Yes, I would have, and I wish I had gone to school because school is important and it makes you a good person living in your country. I wish I had gone to school, if I would have continued to go to school, I would have gotten a better job and now I would have more money for retirement. Now, I only get $600 a month and that’s not enough to pay for me and my husband to live comfortably each month.
What would you have studied more?
I wanted to study more to be a beautician, but I had no money, I had no car, and I was a newlywed. I had now way to get anywhere, let alone a school. If I had a way to go, I would have gone.
Was there equal education for girls and boys in the Philippines?
Yes, there was, everything was equal in terms of education.
Do you have any children?
No, no.
Do you wish education was free for everyone?
Yes, I do, wish it was, even bad people who are criminals should get a free education because the only reason why they are criminals is because they didn’t get an education.
Name: Bibiana Ocheke-Ameh
Place of current residence: Seattle, Washington
Place of past residence: Nigeria, Africa
Relationship: Mother
Where have you obtained education?
Nigeria and U.S.A.
When?
I’ve been getting my education since the 70’s and then again in the 90’s. I have to go sit down now so you can ask me there. Do you need the exact date?
Mom, no. Come on….
When did you receive education in Nigeria vs. America?
When I say the 70’s that means starting from elementary school, high school, you know. So, in my 70’s I was in Nigeria. It wasn’t until the 90’s that I got my degree in Seattle.
And what college did you attend?
University of Washington
What degree did you earn?
Business Administration
So you got a bachelor’s?
Yes.
So, lets go back to Nigeria, what kind of education did you receive there?
Up to a high school diploma.
What kind of classes were there?
Wow, general classes, math, English, science, social studies(which you guys call language arts) Uh…arts and crafts, uh…we did PE. Well, its PE. You get involved with so me activities, running, races, netball(which is like basketball) and then we also, umm…yeah, that’s about it.
What kind of students were at school?
…we played badminton….
Mom, I’m asking a different question now.
Oh, what? I didn’t hear you. What?
(I repeat the question)
Well, elementary school is mixed with boys and girls, but high school was only a girls school, a boarding school, where you live away from home. Called St. Mary’s High School. Oh, actually St. Mary’s college. Back then college was called high school.
What kind of teachers did you have there?
All kinds, like geography teachers, literature teachers, umm.
Describe them.
We did have some European teachers, nuns as teachers.
You had nuns as teachers? Did they hit you with rulers?
No, not in high school.
So, in general, do you think the quality of education you received in Nigeria had a connection to your economic status, gender and/or location?
I believe so.
Can you tell me more?
Without the education I received, I don’t think I would be where I am today. If I didn’t have education in Nigeria I probably wouldn’t be here. That Nigerian education was the starting point and the biggest influence for my continuing to get an education in the U.S.
It opened my eyes to go further.
Did the fact you were poor growing up affect your ability to receive a decent education in Nigeria?
Um, I don’t know…probably, given what we had, it was decent enough. But if the family was richer, I could have been exposed to private tutoring, so in a way, yes.
Didn’t you say you had to pay for your basic education in Nigeria?
Yes.
Was getting that money easy for your family?
No, because we were poor it was difficult, because my parents were farmers they had to work hard to pay to send me to school.
So what about gender? How did that affect your education?
Gender didn’t really affect me particularly. Not that I can remember. If it did, it wasn’t apparent to me.
Didn’t you say you dad had reservations about sending you to school because of your gender?
Initially, yes. Especially, for high school, he was advised by others not to send me to school, not to train a female, but with me and my mother’s persistence, he was convinced.
Lets move on to your education in the U.S. How did you get the idea to come to America for college?
I didn’t decide on my own, to come to the U.S. Your dad was here already and I came sort of as a result of marriage. I also wanted to get more education and further my experience.
And what made you decide to major in Business Administration?
Well, I wanted to maybe eventually have my own business and I wanted to have the tools to do so. If that didn’t work, I could then use that to work in any field. I felt it was versatile.
And how did you like UW?
It was a good school, and I have no other school to compare it with, but I think the education was good, the training was rigorous and you worked hard for your degree., your credits.
How would you compare UW in America to St. Mary’s College in Nigeria?
UW was in a different country, St. Mary’s had less resources than in UW, even compared to high school here in America. In that respect, there was a huge difference. High school here there are textbooks, accesses to libraries, in Nigeria, if a teacher recommended a textbook, if you had the money, you can get it. As far as teaching, in Nigeria, you can get one-on-one with the teachers, but here, in the University, you have to fend for yourself. So there were pros and cons.
Ok, thanks, for your help, Mom. Nice talking to you.
You’re done?
Yeah.
Good luck to you.
1.) Where have you received education?
2.) Up to what level?
3.) Describe your high school teachers?(ethnicity, teaching methods)
4.) What was class like? (how big, diverse, did everyone get good grades, honors vs. regular, did everyone have the desire to learn?)
5.) What did you think of the school system at that time vs. now?
6.) What college did you go to?
7.) What did you major in?
8.) What kind of classes did you enroll in?(were they connected to your personal interests or required?)
9.) Describe them. (how big, diverse, challenging, interesting, fun?)
10.) Were your professors easy to talk to? (did you get much one-on-one experience, did you feel like they played an active role in your educational journey?)
11.) Compared to high school, do you think college was more of an enriching experience for you? Why? (which did you learn more in, which did you like better?)
12.) What school do you currently attend?
13.) How far into law school are you?
14.) How would you describe your first year of law school? (was it challenging, interesting, surprising, did you enjoy it?)
15.) What classes did you take?
16.) How would you compare first year to second year? (which did you like more, why, which was harder, different level classes)
17.) How do you expect third year to be? (heard any rumors?)
18.) What were your teachers like? (helpful, nice?)
IMPORTANT QUESTIONS:
19.) Was it hard for you to pay for college? Did you receive scholarships? What about law school? Do you think all educational facilities should be free? Why?
20.) Do you think that in the U.S. , it is easy to receive an education that will get you into the career you choose, or the job you want to get? Why do you think so much emphasis is placed on teenagers going to college, even if that doesn’t necessarily guarantee them a job in today's society? Do you feel like you will be able to get the job you want?
21.) How has gender affected/not affected your educational experience? in positive or negative ways? Do you think it will in the future?
22.) Does everyone share the same privileges in receiving an education in the U.S.?
TOP QUESTION:
23.) Do you think that if you were living in a developing country, you would be able to receive the same level of education you have in the U.S.? Why/why not?
1.) I received education in the United States, specifically in Seattle, Washington and San Francisco, California.
2.) My last degree was a bachelor’s degree from University of Washington and I am currently one year away from my juris doctor (law school).
3.) I attended both Garfield High School and The Center School. At Garfield, my teachers were racially diverse. I had teachers that were white and teachers of color. At Garfield, the students took a lot of initiative with the work that they did. Instead of the teachers leading, the students were kind of self-led and the teachers would supervise. At The Center School, the teachers were all white. They took a more hands-on approach with the students. Also, Garfield was about ten times bigger than The Center School.
4.) At Garfield, the classes were more diverse unless I was in my honors or advanced placement classes. Those classes would be more white students. In the core academic classes, most students got good grades. In the electives, there was a greater range of grade distribution. Everyone seemed to want to learn, although there were always distractions. At The Center School, there were some students that wanted to do well and others that didn’t. It seemed that everyone fit squarely into one or the other, there was no middle category.
5.) I have no idea what this question means. What school system? You mean the teaching methods or the district? Okay, not sure what to say here.
6.) University of Washington (Seattle, WA).
7.) Law, Societies & Justice with a focus in Crime Control & Justice
8.) I took a lot of criminology and murder classes, a lot of psychology and sociology, and some biology dealing with drugs and the human body. I also took a lot of ethnic studies classes dealing with different cultures and their experiences. My classes were based on interest, yes. College was a great opportunity to learn about whatever I wanted.
9.) My classes were mostly huge. The largest had about 700 people, I think. It was in a huge lecture hall with a microphone for the professor and a PowerPoint screen bigger than Jupiter. That was cool. The classes were challenging and interesting. Some were boring but not many and I don’t even remember them now.
10.) My professors were pretty easy to talk to, for the most part. In the biggest classes, I did not really interact with the professors because I didn’t really want to, but they were accessible if I ever did. Some played a more active role and I will remember them because of it. I recently ran into a retired professor when I was back in Seattle and passing through downtown. We both recognized each other and I thanked him for entertaining me in his classes. It was amazing that he remembered me because he is 77, I was his student five years ago, he has had thousands of students, and the class that I was in was humongous! But he remembered me. J
11.) Yeah, college was definitely more enriching than high school. And it better have been, because I paid a lot of money for it and my high school education was (on the record) free. Yep, got to take a variety of classes. I participated in so many organizations, events, and opportunities! I traveled – and the school paid for it! I worked for UW. I met life-long friends there. I got recommendations from people that helped me to be in law school right now. I gained a sense of who I am. I learned about people from all over the world. College was the bomb.
12.) I currently attend University of San Francisco School of Law.
13.) I have completed two years of law school, I have one more year before I sit for the Bar.
14.) The first year of law school was like getting attacked by piranhas. But it was interesting. Very stressful and painful, but also surprisingly doable. It passes.
15.) I took Criminal Law, Criminal Procedure, Contracts, Civil Procedure, Property, Torts, Moot Court, and Legal Research & Writing.
16.) My first year was like the year of being a deer caught in headlights. My second year was a TON of work, but I wasn’t scared. I wasn’t scared at all, I was just exhausted all the time and spread too thin. My first year, I had no idea what was going on. Ever.
17.) It’s supposed to be boring because you already took everything required or that you were interested in taking. Also, it’s supposed to be annoying because you have to do all this stuff to get ready for the Bar.
18.) My teachers were a mixture of really awesome, decent, and a couple really lame ones. There’s one that is so lame that I don’t even want to check my grade in her class. But I have to. Maybe after this interview.
19.) Yes, it was hard to pay for college. But it was harder for my parents because that’s who actually paid. Financial aid helped a lot once I began receiving it. I didn’t get any help the first year. Yes, I think education should be free unless the educational facilities is teaching the secrets of life itself or can answer why we are all here on this planet. If it’s just general knowledge, it should be free. See, giving people knowledge promotes success for everyone. It’s in all of our best interests that everyone receive a good education.
20.) I better get a job – or else! Yes, I would hope that my education will have helped with that or I will be really pissed off. I mean, I am spending a lot of money for all this and if there’s no job at the end of the tunnel then there’s no reason for me to be waking up so early in the morning to learn stuff. No, it’s not easy to get a good education in the U.S. I consider myself blessed to be receiving one myself. But there’s all kinds of access problems that prevent people from getting a good education. Discrimination against people based on their race or socioeconomic status can close doors for people. It’s not fair and it’s not right.
21.) I’m not sure how gender has or hasn’t affected me educationally. I can tell you that it’s not as easy to determine as other types of discrimination/preference, especially in education.
22.) NO. See part of answer 20.
23.) Depends on the country. Maybe I would attain the same level, but it may be looked at differently there. I don’t know. This is your TOP question?!
Date: June 12, 2010
Place of current residence: Seattle, WA
Place of past residence: Philippines
NOTE: This woman may actually be the sweetest old lady I’ve ever met.
What level of education did you reach?
I reached high school, through my first year.
Why didn’t you finish it?
I didn’t finish it because I was working at my beauty shop in the Philippines.
Oh, you owned a beauty shop? Did you own it by yourself?
Yes, I did.
Did you get a lot of business?
Yeah, since the shop was close to my school, I got a lot of customers. I did manicures, facial massages, pedicures, and permanents as well.
What did you study in?
I graduated in hair science.
(I don’t actually know if this was true since she didn’t finish high school)
Did you like high school?
No, not very much I wanted to help my mother and I just wanted to so hair./
Was high school hard?
No, not hard, it was just boring, I wanted to do hair and help my family out and in addition school was expensive and since I was above the 6th grade, I had to pay for my education.
What did you do when you came to the U.S.?
I worked as a seamstress when I first got here. I immediately came to Seattle. I married my pen pal whom I was writing to in the Philippines, and that’s why I came to the U.S. Then I got a divorce because he drank too much.
Did you want to finish high school here, or go to college?
No, I didn’t want to go to school here, I just wanted to go to work and make enough money to live off of. I didn’t know anyone here but my husband, I didn’t know very much English and I struggled to adjust to the American lifestyle.
Did your mom want you to continue school in the Philippines?
Yes, she did, but she knew that we didn’t have enough money to send me to school and support the family at the same time, so she made me quit going to school. I had a sister who wanted to become a teacher, but she got married in the Philippines, and had two children and she didn’t get to fulfill her wishes of going to school and working.
If you had more money, would you have continued your education?
Yes, I would have, and I wish I had gone to school because school is important and it makes you a good person living in your country. I wish I had gone to school, if I would have continued to go to school, I would have gotten a better job and now I would have more money for retirement. Now, I only get $600 a month and that’s not enough to pay for me and my husband to live comfortably each month.
What would you have studied more?
I wanted to study more to be a beautician, but I had no money, I had no car, and I was a newlywed. I had now way to get anywhere, let alone a school. If I had a way to go, I would have gone.
Was there equal education for girls and boys in the Philippines?
Yes, there was, everything was equal in terms of education.
Do you have any children?
No, no.
Do you wish education was free for everyone?
Yes, I do, wish it was, even bad people who are criminals should get a free education because the only reason why they are criminals is because they didn’t get an education.
Name: Bibiana Ocheke-Ameh
Place of current residence: Seattle, Washington
Place of past residence: Nigeria, Africa
Relationship: Mother
Where have you obtained education?
Nigeria and U.S.A.
When?
I’ve been getting my education since the 70’s and then again in the 90’s. I have to go sit down now so you can ask me there. Do you need the exact date?
Mom, no. Come on….
When did you receive education in Nigeria vs. America?
When I say the 70’s that means starting from elementary school, high school, you know. So, in my 70’s I was in Nigeria. It wasn’t until the 90’s that I got my degree in Seattle.
And what college did you attend?
University of Washington
What degree did you earn?
Business Administration
So you got a bachelor’s?
Yes.
So, lets go back to Nigeria, what kind of education did you receive there?
Up to a high school diploma.
What kind of classes were there?
Wow, general classes, math, English, science, social studies(which you guys call language arts) Uh…arts and crafts, uh…we did PE. Well, its PE. You get involved with so me activities, running, races, netball(which is like basketball) and then we also, umm…yeah, that’s about it.
What kind of students were at school?
…we played badminton….
Mom, I’m asking a different question now.
Oh, what? I didn’t hear you. What?
(I repeat the question)
Well, elementary school is mixed with boys and girls, but high school was only a girls school, a boarding school, where you live away from home. Called St. Mary’s High School. Oh, actually St. Mary’s college. Back then college was called high school.
What kind of teachers did you have there?
All kinds, like geography teachers, literature teachers, umm.
Describe them.
We did have some European teachers, nuns as teachers.
You had nuns as teachers? Did they hit you with rulers?
No, not in high school.
So, in general, do you think the quality of education you received in Nigeria had a connection to your economic status, gender and/or location?
I believe so.
Can you tell me more?
Without the education I received, I don’t think I would be where I am today. If I didn’t have education in Nigeria I probably wouldn’t be here. That Nigerian education was the starting point and the biggest influence for my continuing to get an education in the U.S.
It opened my eyes to go further.
Did the fact you were poor growing up affect your ability to receive a decent education in Nigeria?
Um, I don’t know…probably, given what we had, it was decent enough. But if the family was richer, I could have been exposed to private tutoring, so in a way, yes.
Didn’t you say you had to pay for your basic education in Nigeria?
Yes.
Was getting that money easy for your family?
No, because we were poor it was difficult, because my parents were farmers they had to work hard to pay to send me to school.
So what about gender? How did that affect your education?
Gender didn’t really affect me particularly. Not that I can remember. If it did, it wasn’t apparent to me.
Didn’t you say you dad had reservations about sending you to school because of your gender?
Initially, yes. Especially, for high school, he was advised by others not to send me to school, not to train a female, but with me and my mother’s persistence, he was convinced.
Lets move on to your education in the U.S. How did you get the idea to come to America for college?
I didn’t decide on my own, to come to the U.S. Your dad was here already and I came sort of as a result of marriage. I also wanted to get more education and further my experience.
And what made you decide to major in Business Administration?
Well, I wanted to maybe eventually have my own business and I wanted to have the tools to do so. If that didn’t work, I could then use that to work in any field. I felt it was versatile.
And how did you like UW?
It was a good school, and I have no other school to compare it with, but I think the education was good, the training was rigorous and you worked hard for your degree., your credits.
How would you compare UW in America to St. Mary’s College in Nigeria?
UW was in a different country, St. Mary’s had less resources than in UW, even compared to high school here in America. In that respect, there was a huge difference. High school here there are textbooks, accesses to libraries, in Nigeria, if a teacher recommended a textbook, if you had the money, you can get it. As far as teaching, in Nigeria, you can get one-on-one with the teachers, but here, in the University, you have to fend for yourself. So there were pros and cons.
Ok, thanks, for your help, Mom. Nice talking to you.
You’re done?
Yeah.
Good luck to you.
1.) Where have you received education?
2.) Up to what level?
3.) Describe your high school teachers?(ethnicity, teaching methods)
4.) What was class like? (how big, diverse, did everyone get good grades, honors vs. regular, did everyone have the desire to learn?)
5.) What did you think of the school system at that time vs. now?
6.) What college did you go to?
7.) What did you major in?
8.) What kind of classes did you enroll in?(were they connected to your personal interests or required?)
9.) Describe them. (how big, diverse, challenging, interesting, fun?)
10.) Were your professors easy to talk to? (did you get much one-on-one experience, did you feel like they played an active role in your educational journey?)
11.) Compared to high school, do you think college was more of an enriching experience for you? Why? (which did you learn more in, which did you like better?)
12.) What school do you currently attend?
13.) How far into law school are you?
14.) How would you describe your first year of law school? (was it challenging, interesting, surprising, did you enjoy it?)
15.) What classes did you take?
16.) How would you compare first year to second year? (which did you like more, why, which was harder, different level classes)
17.) How do you expect third year to be? (heard any rumors?)
18.) What were your teachers like? (helpful, nice?)
IMPORTANT QUESTIONS:
19.) Was it hard for you to pay for college? Did you receive scholarships? What about law school? Do you think all educational facilities should be free? Why?
20.) Do you think that in the U.S. , it is easy to receive an education that will get you into the career you choose, or the job you want to get? Why do you think so much emphasis is placed on teenagers going to college, even if that doesn’t necessarily guarantee them a job in today's society? Do you feel like you will be able to get the job you want?
21.) How has gender affected/not affected your educational experience? in positive or negative ways? Do you think it will in the future?
22.) Does everyone share the same privileges in receiving an education in the U.S.?
TOP QUESTION:
23.) Do you think that if you were living in a developing country, you would be able to receive the same level of education you have in the U.S.? Why/why not?
1.) I received education in the United States, specifically in Seattle, Washington and San Francisco, California.
2.) My last degree was a bachelor’s degree from University of Washington and I am currently one year away from my juris doctor (law school).
3.) I attended both Garfield High School and The Center School. At Garfield, my teachers were racially diverse. I had teachers that were white and teachers of color. At Garfield, the students took a lot of initiative with the work that they did. Instead of the teachers leading, the students were kind of self-led and the teachers would supervise. At The Center School, the teachers were all white. They took a more hands-on approach with the students. Also, Garfield was about ten times bigger than The Center School.
4.) At Garfield, the classes were more diverse unless I was in my honors or advanced placement classes. Those classes would be more white students. In the core academic classes, most students got good grades. In the electives, there was a greater range of grade distribution. Everyone seemed to want to learn, although there were always distractions. At The Center School, there were some students that wanted to do well and others that didn’t. It seemed that everyone fit squarely into one or the other, there was no middle category.
5.) I have no idea what this question means. What school system? You mean the teaching methods or the district? Okay, not sure what to say here.
6.) University of Washington (Seattle, WA).
7.) Law, Societies & Justice with a focus in Crime Control & Justice
8.) I took a lot of criminology and murder classes, a lot of psychology and sociology, and some biology dealing with drugs and the human body. I also took a lot of ethnic studies classes dealing with different cultures and their experiences. My classes were based on interest, yes. College was a great opportunity to learn about whatever I wanted.
9.) My classes were mostly huge. The largest had about 700 people, I think. It was in a huge lecture hall with a microphone for the professor and a PowerPoint screen bigger than Jupiter. That was cool. The classes were challenging and interesting. Some were boring but not many and I don’t even remember them now.
10.) My professors were pretty easy to talk to, for the most part. In the biggest classes, I did not really interact with the professors because I didn’t really want to, but they were accessible if I ever did. Some played a more active role and I will remember them because of it. I recently ran into a retired professor when I was back in Seattle and passing through downtown. We both recognized each other and I thanked him for entertaining me in his classes. It was amazing that he remembered me because he is 77, I was his student five years ago, he has had thousands of students, and the class that I was in was humongous! But he remembered me. J
11.) Yeah, college was definitely more enriching than high school. And it better have been, because I paid a lot of money for it and my high school education was (on the record) free. Yep, got to take a variety of classes. I participated in so many organizations, events, and opportunities! I traveled – and the school paid for it! I worked for UW. I met life-long friends there. I got recommendations from people that helped me to be in law school right now. I gained a sense of who I am. I learned about people from all over the world. College was the bomb.
12.) I currently attend University of San Francisco School of Law.
13.) I have completed two years of law school, I have one more year before I sit for the Bar.
14.) The first year of law school was like getting attacked by piranhas. But it was interesting. Very stressful and painful, but also surprisingly doable. It passes.
15.) I took Criminal Law, Criminal Procedure, Contracts, Civil Procedure, Property, Torts, Moot Court, and Legal Research & Writing.
16.) My first year was like the year of being a deer caught in headlights. My second year was a TON of work, but I wasn’t scared. I wasn’t scared at all, I was just exhausted all the time and spread too thin. My first year, I had no idea what was going on. Ever.
17.) It’s supposed to be boring because you already took everything required or that you were interested in taking. Also, it’s supposed to be annoying because you have to do all this stuff to get ready for the Bar.
18.) My teachers were a mixture of really awesome, decent, and a couple really lame ones. There’s one that is so lame that I don’t even want to check my grade in her class. But I have to. Maybe after this interview.
19.) Yes, it was hard to pay for college. But it was harder for my parents because that’s who actually paid. Financial aid helped a lot once I began receiving it. I didn’t get any help the first year. Yes, I think education should be free unless the educational facilities is teaching the secrets of life itself or can answer why we are all here on this planet. If it’s just general knowledge, it should be free. See, giving people knowledge promotes success for everyone. It’s in all of our best interests that everyone receive a good education.
20.) I better get a job – or else! Yes, I would hope that my education will have helped with that or I will be really pissed off. I mean, I am spending a lot of money for all this and if there’s no job at the end of the tunnel then there’s no reason for me to be waking up so early in the morning to learn stuff. No, it’s not easy to get a good education in the U.S. I consider myself blessed to be receiving one myself. But there’s all kinds of access problems that prevent people from getting a good education. Discrimination against people based on their race or socioeconomic status can close doors for people. It’s not fair and it’s not right.
21.) I’m not sure how gender has or hasn’t affected me educationally. I can tell you that it’s not as easy to determine as other types of discrimination/preference, especially in education.
22.) NO. See part of answer 20.
23.) Depends on the country. Maybe I would attain the same level, but it may be looked at differently there. I don’t know. This is your TOP question?!
Corazon Aquino- Klaudine Capistrano
The Corazon Aquino Interview
*Some words my dad said were translated because spoken to me in tagalog in some parts*
For my first interview I had was my dad, Al Capistrano. I’ve known my dad all my life and it was really cool, being able to talk to him about his experiences during The Cold War and his opinions on the effects Corazon Aquino had made in the Philippines. The aspect of the Cold War I’m asking my dad about is how the allies with the US and the Philippines tied in with how Corazon Aquino and how she was affected with The Cold War during her elections He had been a student at the time and he thinks that nothing really affected his studies during that time, He was about 24 years old at the time and he is happy to say it was a wonderful thing to live through so much history..
Do you remember the day Philippines had Corazon Aquino’s as president?
Yes I do. It’s great to know you have such interest in our country. Cory Aquino was such a monumental hero to everyone in the Philippines, remember when she just died last year? It was the saddest thing. I remember when all my friends and I traveled all the way to Quezon City just to hear her inauguration speech, and we lived in Baguio which is pretty far from each other.
And so how was that like being able to see her being elected as president?
It was great, me and my friends had about P100($10) in our pockets, it really wasn’t much but it was worth being able to be there. Before she was elected, the Philippines was in control of Ferdinand Marcos. He was a big shot dictator of the Philippines and well everyone really didn’t like him, so that was why they wanted to elect Cory. He had laws that the people in the Philippines really disagreed with, and there was this big thing about how, instead of making Philippines a better country, he made it worse and made us much more poor by paying for all these programs, that wasn’t even needed, but instead put everyone in National debt.
Wow. Not only was he a dictator, but he was president for quite sometime back then. So how did this tie in with Cory Aquino, how did she get involved?
Well I’m pretty sure you know that, It all started with her husband right Ninoy (Benigno) Aquino. Well, when he was running for president, she was always the one like giving him opinions. She used to I study law at her old school I guess. That’s how she gave him some of her opinions. After he died, she then wanted to carry on her husbands unfinished legacy. People didn’t really think she had the right background to be able to serve a country, but since people didn’t like Marcos, people were going to give it a shot.
What was so bad about Marcos that everyone seems to not like so much?
Well, I really don’t remember why but it had something to do with how he had this weird law that said that if the government couldn’t handle any political or physical aspect the Philippines ,The New People’s Army was going to supposedly fix it. I’m not so sure. But I do remember this huge riot that happened in Batangas City and how kids about 12 years old or so, were talking about burning down the City hall in Quezon City. Also they were like communist rebels and they had this type of gun, you could’ve injured someone with but you couldn’t really kill anybody with it, and they were going to shoot the soldiers in The New People’s Army with it.
How did that turn out? Was that successful in any way?
No, I would say not even close. But it really did grab everyone’s attention. I don’t even think Marcos cared that much about it. But there was a huge political riot that happened there, they started burning down the US flag and ran around screaming “Laban ang Bayan!” (meaning: Fight for your City). It was pretty crazy. Oh yeah.. there was also this rule which was pretty silly that Marcos had, that got us out of school for like a month. It was something about attending his appearances whenever he comes to the city and when he does we pay the bank like about P30 (5 Cents). It was weird..
Wow, I never read about that tell me more, did he ever go to you city?
Yes he did and whenever he did we had to pay the bank, he said it was some sort of tax. It was call “Matakot sa Pera” (fear of the money). I know, pretty weird name, well that wasn’t really what the rule was called. It more like what we say to everyone in our city when it’s time to pay up. Funny story about that when the Japanese were there.
That is a pretty weird way of calling a rule, funny. I think they had a movie in that same title out before. So what was the story behind the Japanese?
Well during WWII, The Japanese was some town in the Philippines and the Japanese would always sell gold there to the rich Filipinos. But what happened was they hid the gold under a tunnel. So one day, a man named Rogelio Roxas found the gold. It was the craziest thing. Later on, Marcos apparently stole it from him and that was how Marcos is so rich and powerful.
What an interesting story, and Marcos seems like he’d do anything for fame and greed. So you said the Japanese was in the Philippines, weren’t they against each other during the Cold War?
The WWII Is very different from The Cold War. In WWII, the Japanese and the Filipinos were against each other. Now, during the Cold War the Filipinos were allied with the US with this one treaty org. That was called SEATO, After the start of the war of terror, the Philippines was part of this coalition that gave support to the US of Iraq. Also SEATO was part of a Truman doctrine anti-communist defense treaty. These treaties and agreements were intended to create alliances that would contain communist power. Philippines were also part of Korean and Vietnam Wars ally with the US.
That’s really fascinating. Was SEATO a successful organization?
Yes it was, it was successful Org. it was I think allied with Southeast Asian countries. I heard that Corazon Aquino was part of this Organization i’m not so sure.
Cool! Thanks dad so much, for your help and it was nice talking to you :)
It’s been a pleasure, and I hope your project goes well.
*Some words my dad said were translated because spoken to me in tagalog in some parts*
For my first interview I had was my dad, Al Capistrano. I’ve known my dad all my life and it was really cool, being able to talk to him about his experiences during The Cold War and his opinions on the effects Corazon Aquino had made in the Philippines. The aspect of the Cold War I’m asking my dad about is how the allies with the US and the Philippines tied in with how Corazon Aquino and how she was affected with The Cold War during her elections He had been a student at the time and he thinks that nothing really affected his studies during that time, He was about 24 years old at the time and he is happy to say it was a wonderful thing to live through so much history..
Do you remember the day Philippines had Corazon Aquino’s as president?
Yes I do. It’s great to know you have such interest in our country. Cory Aquino was such a monumental hero to everyone in the Philippines, remember when she just died last year? It was the saddest thing. I remember when all my friends and I traveled all the way to Quezon City just to hear her inauguration speech, and we lived in Baguio which is pretty far from each other.
And so how was that like being able to see her being elected as president?
It was great, me and my friends had about P100($10) in our pockets, it really wasn’t much but it was worth being able to be there. Before she was elected, the Philippines was in control of Ferdinand Marcos. He was a big shot dictator of the Philippines and well everyone really didn’t like him, so that was why they wanted to elect Cory. He had laws that the people in the Philippines really disagreed with, and there was this big thing about how, instead of making Philippines a better country, he made it worse and made us much more poor by paying for all these programs, that wasn’t even needed, but instead put everyone in National debt.
Wow. Not only was he a dictator, but he was president for quite sometime back then. So how did this tie in with Cory Aquino, how did she get involved?
Well I’m pretty sure you know that, It all started with her husband right Ninoy (Benigno) Aquino. Well, when he was running for president, she was always the one like giving him opinions. She used to I study law at her old school I guess. That’s how she gave him some of her opinions. After he died, she then wanted to carry on her husbands unfinished legacy. People didn’t really think she had the right background to be able to serve a country, but since people didn’t like Marcos, people were going to give it a shot.
What was so bad about Marcos that everyone seems to not like so much?
Well, I really don’t remember why but it had something to do with how he had this weird law that said that if the government couldn’t handle any political or physical aspect the Philippines ,The New People’s Army was going to supposedly fix it. I’m not so sure. But I do remember this huge riot that happened in Batangas City and how kids about 12 years old or so, were talking about burning down the City hall in Quezon City. Also they were like communist rebels and they had this type of gun, you could’ve injured someone with but you couldn’t really kill anybody with it, and they were going to shoot the soldiers in The New People’s Army with it.
How did that turn out? Was that successful in any way?
No, I would say not even close. But it really did grab everyone’s attention. I don’t even think Marcos cared that much about it. But there was a huge political riot that happened there, they started burning down the US flag and ran around screaming “Laban ang Bayan!” (meaning: Fight for your City). It was pretty crazy. Oh yeah.. there was also this rule which was pretty silly that Marcos had, that got us out of school for like a month. It was something about attending his appearances whenever he comes to the city and when he does we pay the bank like about P30 (5 Cents). It was weird..
Wow, I never read about that tell me more, did he ever go to you city?
Yes he did and whenever he did we had to pay the bank, he said it was some sort of tax. It was call “Matakot sa Pera” (fear of the money). I know, pretty weird name, well that wasn’t really what the rule was called. It more like what we say to everyone in our city when it’s time to pay up. Funny story about that when the Japanese were there.
That is a pretty weird way of calling a rule, funny. I think they had a movie in that same title out before. So what was the story behind the Japanese?
Well during WWII, The Japanese was some town in the Philippines and the Japanese would always sell gold there to the rich Filipinos. But what happened was they hid the gold under a tunnel. So one day, a man named Rogelio Roxas found the gold. It was the craziest thing. Later on, Marcos apparently stole it from him and that was how Marcos is so rich and powerful.
What an interesting story, and Marcos seems like he’d do anything for fame and greed. So you said the Japanese was in the Philippines, weren’t they against each other during the Cold War?
The WWII Is very different from The Cold War. In WWII, the Japanese and the Filipinos were against each other. Now, during the Cold War the Filipinos were allied with the US with this one treaty org. That was called SEATO, After the start of the war of terror, the Philippines was part of this coalition that gave support to the US of Iraq. Also SEATO was part of a Truman doctrine anti-communist defense treaty. These treaties and agreements were intended to create alliances that would contain communist power. Philippines were also part of Korean and Vietnam Wars ally with the US.
That’s really fascinating. Was SEATO a successful organization?
Yes it was, it was successful Org. it was I think allied with Southeast Asian countries. I heard that Corazon Aquino was part of this Organization i’m not so sure.
Cool! Thanks dad so much, for your help and it was nice talking to you :)
It’s been a pleasure, and I hope your project goes well.
Post Vietnam War - Tung Diep
My topic is post Vietnam War, and this is Ha T. Diep and he faced many challenges after the war ended. He is a civilian in South Vietnam and this is the interview of him of telling about his life in Vietnam after the war and what happenned when the Viet Cong came.
Interviewer: Tung Diep
Interviewee: Ha T. Diep
Topic: Postwar Vietnam
How old were you and where did you live?
I was 8 years old and I’m at Saigon, Vietnam.
So tell me what happened after the war ended to you?
I was still a student studying and stop when the war ended. One year later, I continued school. Books and notebooks were really hard to find and expensive. We had to search for old notebooks and looking for blank papers and take it out and make it into a notebook. Every day, I would walk five miles to school. We have no money and depended on the government to help us. They gave us hard bread, red rice, these rice were not perfectly made so it was hard to chew. If you lucky enough, you’ll see meat and vegetable on the market, but it way too expensive at that time. There was no petroleum gas back then, so we sometimes go fetch wood and burn them for fire. The government also distributed a different type of oil, but not a lot to each family only about 2 or 3 liters, not enough to use it every day like cook rice and lamp at night.
It was really hard to find job. Since I was a kid, I used to go to a noodle factory, and help out the people and in return they give me noodle to bring home to eat. Over time, I went for another seven years of school then quit helping with family business. At the age eighteen, I was forced by Viet Cong into go to labor and work there for about three and a half years. Then later came home to help with family business again for two years. Then started the family, and work normally.
What happened when Northern Vietnamese soldier came?
Whoever rich, they came into the house and steal every valuable they have, and then forced them back to their native home to live. Many people resisted to go were forced to go to jail. Go is difficult to survive alone, and if don’t go not only will you go to jail but also get beat up by them, and living in jail is not going to option in life so most people chose to leave. They were made to live in a jungle, people cut wood and make their houses out of that. But this is only temporary. We then planted potatoes, peanuts, and beans for food. Sadly enough, there weren’t enough fertilizer or farm-work materials for it to grow. Some died and grow into their small sizes because the field was very dry, there was not enough water in the soil. We usually take water from the well, and the water from there was dirty and we used that on crops not only it will contaminate the crops but whoever eat it, which we are because we are hungry, resulted in illness. Since we did make enough crops, we sneaked back to Saigon. The reason we can’t go back too soon was because the Viet Cong knew which families go and which didn’t. So I waited for everything in Vietnam to calm, then sneak back. Plus, there were no security or fences to prevent us to go back.
Half of my family went to the jungle and the other half stay and watch the house, because if no one watch it, Viet Cong might think that this house have no owner and take the house.
Interviewer: Tung Diep
Interviewee: Ha T. Diep
Topic: Postwar Vietnam
How old were you and where did you live?
I was 8 years old and I’m at Saigon, Vietnam.
So tell me what happened after the war ended to you?
I was still a student studying and stop when the war ended. One year later, I continued school. Books and notebooks were really hard to find and expensive. We had to search for old notebooks and looking for blank papers and take it out and make it into a notebook. Every day, I would walk five miles to school. We have no money and depended on the government to help us. They gave us hard bread, red rice, these rice were not perfectly made so it was hard to chew. If you lucky enough, you’ll see meat and vegetable on the market, but it way too expensive at that time. There was no petroleum gas back then, so we sometimes go fetch wood and burn them for fire. The government also distributed a different type of oil, but not a lot to each family only about 2 or 3 liters, not enough to use it every day like cook rice and lamp at night.
It was really hard to find job. Since I was a kid, I used to go to a noodle factory, and help out the people and in return they give me noodle to bring home to eat. Over time, I went for another seven years of school then quit helping with family business. At the age eighteen, I was forced by Viet Cong into go to labor and work there for about three and a half years. Then later came home to help with family business again for two years. Then started the family, and work normally.
What happened when Northern Vietnamese soldier came?
Whoever rich, they came into the house and steal every valuable they have, and then forced them back to their native home to live. Many people resisted to go were forced to go to jail. Go is difficult to survive alone, and if don’t go not only will you go to jail but also get beat up by them, and living in jail is not going to option in life so most people chose to leave. They were made to live in a jungle, people cut wood and make their houses out of that. But this is only temporary. We then planted potatoes, peanuts, and beans for food. Sadly enough, there weren’t enough fertilizer or farm-work materials for it to grow. Some died and grow into their small sizes because the field was very dry, there was not enough water in the soil. We usually take water from the well, and the water from there was dirty and we used that on crops not only it will contaminate the crops but whoever eat it, which we are because we are hungry, resulted in illness. Since we did make enough crops, we sneaked back to Saigon. The reason we can’t go back too soon was because the Viet Cong knew which families go and which didn’t. So I waited for everything in Vietnam to calm, then sneak back. Plus, there were no security or fences to prevent us to go back.
Half of my family went to the jungle and the other half stay and watch the house, because if no one watch it, Viet Cong might think that this house have no owner and take the house.
Taylor Johnson interview #3
Interview # 3
Over email.
1. Were you drafted or did you volunteer for military service?
I first volunteered for the Marines at nineteen (1961), served four years and was discharged (1964).
How old were you?
I volunteered for Vietnam, at age twenty-two (1965), nine months after I was first discharged.
After training, I was sent to Vietnam.
How did your family and friends react to your going into military service?
They were against it. They knew I would be sent to Vietnam.
Me:
Describe your Basic Training. Where, what happened, your feelings and observations. Did it change you in any way? How? Did it prepare you for Vietnam?
I received basic training at Paris Island, S.C., in 1961
The training was meant to bring you to a state of mindlessness, I was drilled physically and bullied mentally and spiritually
Me:
What did you think and feel about the Vietnamese war, the Vietnamese people, and Vietnam at the time when you came on active duty?
At the time I volunteered, I felt the war in Vietnam was no different from any other.
My grandfather fought in World War I, my dad and uncles in World War II, and several uncles fought in Korea.
I wanted to do my part, just like my relatives before me. I knew the Vietnamese were poor, hard-working people.
Vietnam, both North and South, has known little peace since history began. China has always been a presence, followed by the Mongols, the French, and others, all brought down by the indestructibility of the native Vietnamese.
Over email.
1. Were you drafted or did you volunteer for military service?
I first volunteered for the Marines at nineteen (1961), served four years and was discharged (1964).
How old were you?
I volunteered for Vietnam, at age twenty-two (1965), nine months after I was first discharged.
After training, I was sent to Vietnam.
How did your family and friends react to your going into military service?
They were against it. They knew I would be sent to Vietnam.
Me:
Describe your Basic Training. Where, what happened, your feelings and observations. Did it change you in any way? How? Did it prepare you for Vietnam?
I received basic training at Paris Island, S.C., in 1961
The training was meant to bring you to a state of mindlessness, I was drilled physically and bullied mentally and spiritually
Me:
What did you think and feel about the Vietnamese war, the Vietnamese people, and Vietnam at the time when you came on active duty?
At the time I volunteered, I felt the war in Vietnam was no different from any other.
My grandfather fought in World War I, my dad and uncles in World War II, and several uncles fought in Korea.
I wanted to do my part, just like my relatives before me. I knew the Vietnamese were poor, hard-working people.
Vietnam, both North and South, has known little peace since history began. China has always been a presence, followed by the Mongols, the French, and others, all brought down by the indestructibility of the native Vietnamese.
Taylor Johnson Interview #2
Interview # 2
Uncles Friend
Me: Why did you join the army?
Him:
A couple reasons
To avoid the draft because when you get drafted you are committed for at least 2 years and you have no say on where you go
99% of the time you could be in the jungle
This way I could get a chance at schooling I schooled high in administration
Hoping I would get it my way and hoping they would mess up and I would get out of the army
I went to a special school for administration and took a test and scored top 14 out of 100 that’s when they sent me to Alabama for flight operations.
That’s where I became flight operations flight traffic controller
So for a guy who grew up in Waipahu I did pretty well
I wasn’t patriotical or anything but I was smart and hoping for the contract that administration and pretty much everyone but the army draft guys get.
Me :What was it like for you to get home?
Him:
Well I wasn’t spat at or called names
But I never really walked around I spent a lot of time at home and didn’t show I was apart of the Vietnam war.
I stayed close to family
You could say I was depressed and isolated myself from the world
That has all changed now I am proud like your uncle I went to therapy and had much support from my family.
How was your experience different from my uncles?
Well it wasn’t really I remember those 4 soilders and that story your uncle was scary at the time
(laughs)
When I think of the war all I remember is sad faces,
a lot of blood
to be honest with you its all a blur in my head that I cant put into words
its like a loud boom in my head, and it’s a Smokey memory.
I saw many eyes that called for help and I did the best I could to help them on those helicopters.
I remember getting shot at a few times and seeing myself die.
One thing I wont forget is how muggy and hot it was in Vietnam.
Uncles Friend
Me: Why did you join the army?
Him:
A couple reasons
To avoid the draft because when you get drafted you are committed for at least 2 years and you have no say on where you go
99% of the time you could be in the jungle
This way I could get a chance at schooling I schooled high in administration
Hoping I would get it my way and hoping they would mess up and I would get out of the army
I went to a special school for administration and took a test and scored top 14 out of 100 that’s when they sent me to Alabama for flight operations.
That’s where I became flight operations flight traffic controller
So for a guy who grew up in Waipahu I did pretty well
I wasn’t patriotical or anything but I was smart and hoping for the contract that administration and pretty much everyone but the army draft guys get.
Me :What was it like for you to get home?
Him:
Well I wasn’t spat at or called names
But I never really walked around I spent a lot of time at home and didn’t show I was apart of the Vietnam war.
I stayed close to family
You could say I was depressed and isolated myself from the world
That has all changed now I am proud like your uncle I went to therapy and had much support from my family.
How was your experience different from my uncles?
Well it wasn’t really I remember those 4 soilders and that story your uncle was scary at the time
(laughs)
When I think of the war all I remember is sad faces,
a lot of blood
to be honest with you its all a blur in my head that I cant put into words
its like a loud boom in my head, and it’s a Smokey memory.
I saw many eyes that called for help and I did the best I could to help them on those helicopters.
I remember getting shot at a few times and seeing myself die.
One thing I wont forget is how muggy and hot it was in Vietnam.
Taylor Johnson Interview # 1
Interview # 1
My Uncle Ben Castellano
Me: So what was it you actually did? What was your job?
Him:
Well I ducked a lot
I worked in the medevac what you call huey helicopters
I picked up dead people.
I worked in a DUSTOFF medevac which is an acronym.
Do you know what that is??
Me: YESSS UNCLE I DO (laughing)
Him:
Well it stands for Dedicated Unhesitating Service To Our Fighting Forces
There is a difference between us and other medevacs in that we pick up anybody, civilians allies like Koreans or even our Enemies.
Another difference was medevacs get to carry machine guns
Dustoffs signed the Geneva convention and were not allowed to carry weapons
The Vietnamese never signed so they shot at us all the time.
Its funny how one does and one doesn’t but we are in the same war.
But anyway you could tell the difference by on our helicopters we had red crosses meaning we couldn’t shoot.
Ohhhh! Our mascots were monkeys and dogs that hung around our camps.
(laughing)
I wasn’t an office person I liked being on call all the time and always in action.
Me: So what did you think about the war?
Him:
No comment. (laughs)
Well I wasn’t drafted
Whatever was asked of me I would accept
I was not political I was not RA RA USA!
I was 18 years old and I thought it was the thing to do
Although I wasn’t patriotic or anything I was proud to go I was proud I went.
Me: I heard that it wasn’t very good for some when they returned home. How was it when you got home?
Him:
I was spat at
Called baby killers
And all that good stuff
We had bombing craters and these bombs would cause collateral damage meaning it would kill everyone around it it couldn’t pick and choose who to kill.
See during WWII the public thought you were a hero when you returned from war
Well it was the opposite for us.
Me : You said you were proud, why are you proud now?
People except it now
They made Hollywood movies
Im famous
Me: Okaaaay uncle if you say so
Me: What types of things did you see?
Him:
I need therapy now lets put it that way.
One time we got this call a girl was injured.. never told us the injury
We went in
She was an 11 year old girl
What these men did was they folded a barb wire they folded into a v shape and put it in her vagina putting the front end in first so that when they pulled it out it would rip it even more. We found out that this happened after the raped her.
Another time
When I first went in country
In country is what we all called it its like we left the world and was going into country but anyway.
There was this local guy who was at the PX store which was the post exchange where they sold my shaving cream sausage spam cigarettes it was like our walmart
He invited me back to his bunker we were talking story smoking, he had an ash tray it looked like a spoon meat coconut with all the meat dried up inside and the hair around the outside so I was dumping my ashes into it when I asked him why he didn’t eat the meat and where he got this coconut from that’s when he told me it was a ladies skull with her red hair still on it.
See when people go to war they lose there sense of detachment they desensitize themselves.
At these camps we had a dump where we dumped all our rations and the poor Vietnamese would come in and take the left over food and the Vietcong thought it would be a wonderful idea to booby trap the dump so when they came to get food they would get blown up.
Then there was a time I picked up 4 soldiers what happened to them was there are cannons that don’t explode so Vietnamese take the shells and set up booby traps so when Americans run through the jungle the would shoot.
So we dusted off these 4 soldiers so we could take them to the hospital
When we have multiple people on the helicopters we have to decide which is more serious. My friend and I both from Hawaii decided to work on the stretchers but there are only 3 that can stack what is the worst thing is when the guys are bleeding a lot and the top one over flows with blood then it drips down to the second stretcher then when that one over flows it goes to the bottom one. So we chose the 3 that looked most injured and aided to them 1st when I looked at the 4th one I saw he wasn’t conscious and he was cold and when I felt for his pulse there was none. He died on that flight. I felt like it was my fault and I could have done something. I didn’t know until way later that I couldn’t have done anything a piece of medal went into his rib. I wish I could have known earlier for 3 days I walked around like a zombie I shut out everything I was confrontational and I blocked out those all around me.
I didn’t remember that story because I blocked it out for so long until I went back to Hawaii for my daughters graduation and I went to my friend Rogers house who was there with me we talked about all the funny times until he brought that moment back to me.
Me: you said funny times. What were the funny times?
We had what we call donut dolleys which were American women, nurses who worked at the medevac hospitals.
The officers got to date.
So you know how soldiers are supposed to be prestigious and big shots. Well there was this one who used to play football for Florida and we all hated him his name was Bruce
He used to take dolleys into his room to “watch tv” so one time me and roger decided to give him one bad experience so we took gas grenades which are all different kinds of colors blue green purple yellow etc. so we grabbed some and while his air conditioning was on snuck into his room and popped them near his air conditioner
My friend and I became very famous that day every time we went to the PX they would buy us our spam.
(laughs)
So yea it was fun I go to therapy now, is there anything else?
Me: No im speechless
(laughs)
My Uncle Ben Castellano
Me: So what was it you actually did? What was your job?
Him:
Well I ducked a lot
I worked in the medevac what you call huey helicopters
I picked up dead people.
I worked in a DUSTOFF medevac which is an acronym.
Do you know what that is??
Me: YESSS UNCLE I DO (laughing)
Him:
Well it stands for Dedicated Unhesitating Service To Our Fighting Forces
There is a difference between us and other medevacs in that we pick up anybody, civilians allies like Koreans or even our Enemies.
Another difference was medevacs get to carry machine guns
Dustoffs signed the Geneva convention and were not allowed to carry weapons
The Vietnamese never signed so they shot at us all the time.
Its funny how one does and one doesn’t but we are in the same war.
But anyway you could tell the difference by on our helicopters we had red crosses meaning we couldn’t shoot.
Ohhhh! Our mascots were monkeys and dogs that hung around our camps.
(laughing)
I wasn’t an office person I liked being on call all the time and always in action.
Me: So what did you think about the war?
Him:
No comment. (laughs)
Well I wasn’t drafted
Whatever was asked of me I would accept
I was not political I was not RA RA USA!
I was 18 years old and I thought it was the thing to do
Although I wasn’t patriotic or anything I was proud to go I was proud I went.
Me: I heard that it wasn’t very good for some when they returned home. How was it when you got home?
Him:
I was spat at
Called baby killers
And all that good stuff
We had bombing craters and these bombs would cause collateral damage meaning it would kill everyone around it it couldn’t pick and choose who to kill.
See during WWII the public thought you were a hero when you returned from war
Well it was the opposite for us.
Me : You said you were proud, why are you proud now?
People except it now
They made Hollywood movies
Im famous
Me: Okaaaay uncle if you say so
Me: What types of things did you see?
Him:
I need therapy now lets put it that way.
One time we got this call a girl was injured.. never told us the injury
We went in
She was an 11 year old girl
What these men did was they folded a barb wire they folded into a v shape and put it in her vagina putting the front end in first so that when they pulled it out it would rip it even more. We found out that this happened after the raped her.
Another time
When I first went in country
In country is what we all called it its like we left the world and was going into country but anyway.
There was this local guy who was at the PX store which was the post exchange where they sold my shaving cream sausage spam cigarettes it was like our walmart
He invited me back to his bunker we were talking story smoking, he had an ash tray it looked like a spoon meat coconut with all the meat dried up inside and the hair around the outside so I was dumping my ashes into it when I asked him why he didn’t eat the meat and where he got this coconut from that’s when he told me it was a ladies skull with her red hair still on it.
See when people go to war they lose there sense of detachment they desensitize themselves.
At these camps we had a dump where we dumped all our rations and the poor Vietnamese would come in and take the left over food and the Vietcong thought it would be a wonderful idea to booby trap the dump so when they came to get food they would get blown up.
Then there was a time I picked up 4 soldiers what happened to them was there are cannons that don’t explode so Vietnamese take the shells and set up booby traps so when Americans run through the jungle the would shoot.
So we dusted off these 4 soldiers so we could take them to the hospital
When we have multiple people on the helicopters we have to decide which is more serious. My friend and I both from Hawaii decided to work on the stretchers but there are only 3 that can stack what is the worst thing is when the guys are bleeding a lot and the top one over flows with blood then it drips down to the second stretcher then when that one over flows it goes to the bottom one. So we chose the 3 that looked most injured and aided to them 1st when I looked at the 4th one I saw he wasn’t conscious and he was cold and when I felt for his pulse there was none. He died on that flight. I felt like it was my fault and I could have done something. I didn’t know until way later that I couldn’t have done anything a piece of medal went into his rib. I wish I could have known earlier for 3 days I walked around like a zombie I shut out everything I was confrontational and I blocked out those all around me.
I didn’t remember that story because I blocked it out for so long until I went back to Hawaii for my daughters graduation and I went to my friend Rogers house who was there with me we talked about all the funny times until he brought that moment back to me.
Me: you said funny times. What were the funny times?
We had what we call donut dolleys which were American women, nurses who worked at the medevac hospitals.
The officers got to date.
So you know how soldiers are supposed to be prestigious and big shots. Well there was this one who used to play football for Florida and we all hated him his name was Bruce
He used to take dolleys into his room to “watch tv” so one time me and roger decided to give him one bad experience so we took gas grenades which are all different kinds of colors blue green purple yellow etc. so we grabbed some and while his air conditioning was on snuck into his room and popped them near his air conditioner
My friend and I became very famous that day every time we went to the PX they would buy us our spam.
(laughs)
So yea it was fun I go to therapy now, is there anything else?
Me: No im speechless
(laughs)
AIDS Adrianna Suleiman
My topic is AIDS. I only had one interview. It was with a guy who has had AIDS and he talks about his experience with it.
When did you first get HIV/AIDS? I was diagnosed on as being HIV+ on July 13, 1998. However, based upon the level of virus in my body and the deficient immune system at the time doctors believed I had been living with it for nearly two years.
What was it like you you first got infected? Looking back now, I can see when I became infected. A few weeks after contracting the virus, I came down with what appeared at the time to be a very bad flu or cold. I was in bed sick for 7 days, probably the worst I have ever felt in my entire life, the process is referred to as seroconversion, which is when the virus takes hold in your body and begins to replicate while attacking your immune system.
Were there medications or infromation availiable? The time period when I was diagnosed luckily coincided with the early days of the antiretroviral therapies, or the "cocktail" as it was called back then. It took a few months to find out just how much of the virus was present in my body and begin treatment. I had virtually no immune system at that point, living with a mere 8 T-Cells (CD4) and close to a million copies of the virus present in my body. Despite the dire numbers the doctors presented to me, I felt relatively okay. I was experiencing some fatigue and loss of appetite, but I attributed it to the stress of a new job and becoming a father around the same time. There were some very significant changes going on in my life at the time that challenged me at times, but I believe those same challenges actually helped me to cope with my diagnosis and push forward with life. The medications that I began taking were a pretty extreme regimen, I was taking 37 pills a day to combat the virus and any potential illness related. I would have to set alarms throughout the day to take the medication at specific times, starting as early as 5am every day. The side effects were not as severe for me as they were for others, but I still had my fare share. I am thankful today that I had those drugs though, my first HIV doctor told me I would be lucky to live 6 more months; it's been almost 12 years now. The doctor that told me that died 3 years ago and I'm still here to tell my story, so I cherish every day as best I can. They knew so little about how long persons with HIV would live on the new medications, but it was the first time since the start of the epidemic that the death rate for HIV/AIDS began to decline. I feel fortunate that my diagnosis came at that time in medical history or I would likely not have become a long-term survivor.
How did you cope with it? Taking the medication was the only way to fight the virus aggressively, so of course I did that. However, that does not prepare you for the psychological aspect of such a diagnosis. I focused a lot on my then newborn daughter, she has been tested over the years and does not have the HIV virus, nor does her mother. Having a new baby in the house brought so much joy and thought of the future it really drove me to do everything I could to live well with HIV. I began seeking counseling, taking education classes to understand the virus and how it was impacting my body, I changed my lifestyle in many ways also. I quit smoking, drinking, and in general not taking care of my body. I sought nutritional counseling and found a peer support group that matched me up with someone who was living well with HIV. I also took some metaphysical classes, practiced alternative therapies like visualization, meditation, and spiritual exercises. I read everything I could about anyone who was doing well with HIV and tried to bring it into my life in some aspect. I have continued to practice much of it throughout the years, most important realizing that a holistic approach to my wellness as an individual and as someone living with HIV was critical to my success. I also had tremendous support from my family, my wife at the time, and friends all around me. To this day I make sure to recognize the importance that their support has played in my managing HIV so well. I currently have close to 600 CD4 or T-Cells and the virus has been at the "undetectable" or below for over 10 years now (undetectable is the desired status for how much of the virus is present in your system, typically that would be 50 copies or less). Looking back I feel I did well and made a strong effort, but there were definitely some hard hills to climb. Nothing can possibly prepare a person for the emotional and psychological ups and downs. I went through some periods of depression, attacks of anxiety, and tremendous stress. I did take additional medications for those issues for a couple of years until I got over the toughest part. I facilitate a support group for persons who are newly diagnosed/dealing with HIV and the most common feeling in the beginning is that of being dirty or somehow less valid as a person. Many people, myself included, go through a period of time where they feel that no one could ever love them again and that all those that had cared in the past would turn away. Luckily, that is not the case and those feeling pass, but it's a pretty tough journey. I have since divorced the woman I was married to at the time, but not because of HIV. Having dated over the years since the divorce I have had to address some of those feelings again. Most of my dating experiences have been pretty good regarding HIV, most that I have dated were comfortable with my status and embraced me. There were a few that did not though, I had been a few dates with an individual back in 2005 and when I disclosed my HIV status the response was "oh, wow! That's awful, I'm so sorry. I don't think I can continue you to see you though, I would be afraid of dying every time I touch you". That was tough thing to hear, but I have long since realized that we all have our own opinions and right to choose. I respect that and now before even asking someone out on a date I disclose my status to avoid any such situations. I am very comfortable with being HIV+ at this point, I have lived with it so long. I would be lying if I said there was not still quite a bit of stigma attached to the virus and anyone living with it, but I've learned how to process it all in a way that works for me and has minimal impact on my self image, it is important in my opinion to always respect and value who you are regardless of the circumstances of ones own life and the way others perceive it.
How do you cope with it now? I think I answered this in the previous question, but in short - I love and respect myself, I know that I have something to offer in life, I empower myself with knowledge, and surround myself with others who feel the same. I actively educate myself as the understanding of the virus and treatment evolves, I share my story with others and speak out about life with HIV whenever possible. I have found that for myself to cope with it well, I must embrace what I can not change. I am not solely defined as an individual by my HIV status, but it does play a big role in my daily life. I see the doctor often, I constantly look at ways to improve my quality of life, and I have done what I could to reverse some of the physical side effects of long-term drug therapies for HIV. I did experience some facial wasting, or lipodistrophy, from a medication I took for about 6 years. I lost a great deal of the fatty tissues in my face, which resulted in having a very gaunt look or what some call "AIDS Face". I underwent treatment this year to reconstruct some of the loss. There is now an injectable filler called Sculptra that stimulates the collagen to grow back in the areas where it is lost. For myself that was the cheeks and temples, very visible areas. I had to have 6 treatments that cost about $750 each. I would spend an hour in the doctors chair having countless needles stuck in my face to inject the solution. It was quite painful at times, but the results are well worth it. I no longer feel as though I look like someone with HIV/AIDS.
Did your relationships change with your family and loved ones when they found out your status? Yes, it changed a lot. My diagnosis actually brought me much closer to my family, they stood by me with tremendous support and helped in any way they could. I have no way of ever being able to measure just what that did for me. I am extremely grateful that they were there for me.
Was anyone else you knew suffering from the illness? At the time I was diagnosed I knew a few people with HIV, but not many that I was close to. Today I could not even count the friends I have living with the virus. I am very active in the HIV community, I travel to various conferences throughout the year to educate myself and others. All of it has resulted in meeting some amazing and inspiring people. I have often said that HIV has actually brought many great things to my life, including friends, relationships, and an appreciation for life that I doubt I would have ever had otherwise. That being said, if there were a cure tomorrow I would be at the front of the line.
How would you compare HIV/AIDS from when you first were diagnosed to now? The medications and management of the disease has tremendously improved. Like I stated prior, I took 37 pills a day for the HIV at one point and I don't know how many others to combat side effects and emotional issues related. Today I take only 1 pill for HIV and I have long since stopped taking anything for side effects. I am healthy and happy in life, it just happens to be that I also have HIV. I actually catch colds or flu bugs much less often than most in my family and circle of friends, which I attribute to my actively trying to live as well as possible.
When did you first get HIV/AIDS? I was diagnosed on as being HIV+ on July 13, 1998. However, based upon the level of virus in my body and the deficient immune system at the time doctors believed I had been living with it for nearly two years.
What was it like you you first got infected? Looking back now, I can see when I became infected. A few weeks after contracting the virus, I came down with what appeared at the time to be a very bad flu or cold. I was in bed sick for 7 days, probably the worst I have ever felt in my entire life, the process is referred to as seroconversion, which is when the virus takes hold in your body and begins to replicate while attacking your immune system.
Were there medications or infromation availiable? The time period when I was diagnosed luckily coincided with the early days of the antiretroviral therapies, or the "cocktail" as it was called back then. It took a few months to find out just how much of the virus was present in my body and begin treatment. I had virtually no immune system at that point, living with a mere 8 T-Cells (CD4) and close to a million copies of the virus present in my body. Despite the dire numbers the doctors presented to me, I felt relatively okay. I was experiencing some fatigue and loss of appetite, but I attributed it to the stress of a new job and becoming a father around the same time. There were some very significant changes going on in my life at the time that challenged me at times, but I believe those same challenges actually helped me to cope with my diagnosis and push forward with life. The medications that I began taking were a pretty extreme regimen, I was taking 37 pills a day to combat the virus and any potential illness related. I would have to set alarms throughout the day to take the medication at specific times, starting as early as 5am every day. The side effects were not as severe for me as they were for others, but I still had my fare share. I am thankful today that I had those drugs though, my first HIV doctor told me I would be lucky to live 6 more months; it's been almost 12 years now. The doctor that told me that died 3 years ago and I'm still here to tell my story, so I cherish every day as best I can. They knew so little about how long persons with HIV would live on the new medications, but it was the first time since the start of the epidemic that the death rate for HIV/AIDS began to decline. I feel fortunate that my diagnosis came at that time in medical history or I would likely not have become a long-term survivor.
How did you cope with it? Taking the medication was the only way to fight the virus aggressively, so of course I did that. However, that does not prepare you for the psychological aspect of such a diagnosis. I focused a lot on my then newborn daughter, she has been tested over the years and does not have the HIV virus, nor does her mother. Having a new baby in the house brought so much joy and thought of the future it really drove me to do everything I could to live well with HIV. I began seeking counseling, taking education classes to understand the virus and how it was impacting my body, I changed my lifestyle in many ways also. I quit smoking, drinking, and in general not taking care of my body. I sought nutritional counseling and found a peer support group that matched me up with someone who was living well with HIV. I also took some metaphysical classes, practiced alternative therapies like visualization, meditation, and spiritual exercises. I read everything I could about anyone who was doing well with HIV and tried to bring it into my life in some aspect. I have continued to practice much of it throughout the years, most important realizing that a holistic approach to my wellness as an individual and as someone living with HIV was critical to my success. I also had tremendous support from my family, my wife at the time, and friends all around me. To this day I make sure to recognize the importance that their support has played in my managing HIV so well. I currently have close to 600 CD4 or T-Cells and the virus has been at the "undetectable" or below for over 10 years now (undetectable is the desired status for how much of the virus is present in your system, typically that would be 50 copies or less). Looking back I feel I did well and made a strong effort, but there were definitely some hard hills to climb. Nothing can possibly prepare a person for the emotional and psychological ups and downs. I went through some periods of depression, attacks of anxiety, and tremendous stress. I did take additional medications for those issues for a couple of years until I got over the toughest part. I facilitate a support group for persons who are newly diagnosed/dealing with HIV and the most common feeling in the beginning is that of being dirty or somehow less valid as a person. Many people, myself included, go through a period of time where they feel that no one could ever love them again and that all those that had cared in the past would turn away. Luckily, that is not the case and those feeling pass, but it's a pretty tough journey. I have since divorced the woman I was married to at the time, but not because of HIV. Having dated over the years since the divorce I have had to address some of those feelings again. Most of my dating experiences have been pretty good regarding HIV, most that I have dated were comfortable with my status and embraced me. There were a few that did not though, I had been a few dates with an individual back in 2005 and when I disclosed my HIV status the response was "oh, wow! That's awful, I'm so sorry. I don't think I can continue you to see you though, I would be afraid of dying every time I touch you". That was tough thing to hear, but I have long since realized that we all have our own opinions and right to choose. I respect that and now before even asking someone out on a date I disclose my status to avoid any such situations. I am very comfortable with being HIV+ at this point, I have lived with it so long. I would be lying if I said there was not still quite a bit of stigma attached to the virus and anyone living with it, but I've learned how to process it all in a way that works for me and has minimal impact on my self image, it is important in my opinion to always respect and value who you are regardless of the circumstances of ones own life and the way others perceive it.
How do you cope with it now? I think I answered this in the previous question, but in short - I love and respect myself, I know that I have something to offer in life, I empower myself with knowledge, and surround myself with others who feel the same. I actively educate myself as the understanding of the virus and treatment evolves, I share my story with others and speak out about life with HIV whenever possible. I have found that for myself to cope with it well, I must embrace what I can not change. I am not solely defined as an individual by my HIV status, but it does play a big role in my daily life. I see the doctor often, I constantly look at ways to improve my quality of life, and I have done what I could to reverse some of the physical side effects of long-term drug therapies for HIV. I did experience some facial wasting, or lipodistrophy, from a medication I took for about 6 years. I lost a great deal of the fatty tissues in my face, which resulted in having a very gaunt look or what some call "AIDS Face". I underwent treatment this year to reconstruct some of the loss. There is now an injectable filler called Sculptra that stimulates the collagen to grow back in the areas where it is lost. For myself that was the cheeks and temples, very visible areas. I had to have 6 treatments that cost about $750 each. I would spend an hour in the doctors chair having countless needles stuck in my face to inject the solution. It was quite painful at times, but the results are well worth it. I no longer feel as though I look like someone with HIV/AIDS.
Did your relationships change with your family and loved ones when they found out your status? Yes, it changed a lot. My diagnosis actually brought me much closer to my family, they stood by me with tremendous support and helped in any way they could. I have no way of ever being able to measure just what that did for me. I am extremely grateful that they were there for me.
Was anyone else you knew suffering from the illness? At the time I was diagnosed I knew a few people with HIV, but not many that I was close to. Today I could not even count the friends I have living with the virus. I am very active in the HIV community, I travel to various conferences throughout the year to educate myself and others. All of it has resulted in meeting some amazing and inspiring people. I have often said that HIV has actually brought many great things to my life, including friends, relationships, and an appreciation for life that I doubt I would have ever had otherwise. That being said, if there were a cure tomorrow I would be at the front of the line.
How would you compare HIV/AIDS from when you first were diagnosed to now? The medications and management of the disease has tremendously improved. Like I stated prior, I took 37 pills a day for the HIV at one point and I don't know how many others to combat side effects and emotional issues related. Today I take only 1 pill for HIV and I have long since stopped taking anything for side effects. I am healthy and happy in life, it just happens to be that I also have HIV. I actually catch colds or flu bugs much less often than most in my family and circle of friends, which I attribute to my actively trying to live as well as possible.
Consumer Spending in the Great Recession - Zach Gottschalk
Interview with Nan Wilson. Nan is the owner and sole proprietor of Interiors of Edmonds, a small business in Edmonds which specializes in interior decorating. She is my grandmother.
1. Have sales for your business slowed down since December of 2007 (the start of the Recession)?
Slightly, but yes.
2. What makes you think that your sales have not dropped as much as the sales of other businesses?
I think I have a business that covers a lot of things for people in their homes and if people can't move and can't do major things, they will do small things. People like to be doing something, and my business allows people to do that without spending too much. I also have a huge clientele base.
3. How would you describe the social class of the majority of your clientele base?
Upper middle class to middle upper class. I have some pretty wealthy clients and they are secure in their finances. They're pretty situated.
4. In your opinion, if people in your clientele base spent more money than they do at small businesses, would it help end the Recession?
Yes, it most definitely would. Circulating money always helps. It's so far reaching, it helps everyone. Workers, suppliers, employees. It gives some confidence to the world that it's OK to spend.
5. Have you tried using any sort of incentive in order to increase sales?
Yes, a 20% discount that we do twice a year.
6. Did it work? If not, why don’t you think so?
Yes it does work.
7. If it did work, would you plan on using incentives in the future?
Yes, we plan on doing this more in the future.
8. If there was not a Recession, would you be more or less inclined to use incentives?
I've done this consistently throughout my years in business so I would likely continue to do it.
8.5.
They are not loyal because of the incentives, I have simply established a large clientele through good service.
9. In your opinion, if the media did not hype up the Recession, would sales be different?
They've hyped it up way too much. It would not be as bad. Honestly, it's probably mostly mental and a lot of it would not be as bad if people weren't being told it was as bad.
10. Have you ever tried collaborating with another small business owner to mutually increase sales?
No.
11. Why not?
Anybody who I would do that with would be a competitor, so I would not want to do that.
Interview with Jon Peder Bakken. Jon is the president of the northwest branch of Bergen's, which is a small company which specializes in alpine sportswear. He is the father of one of my best friends.
1. Have sales for your business slowed down since December of 2007 (the start of the Recession)?
Yes, they have.
2. What do you think the reason for this is?
People have less spending money. Less discretionary funds.
3. How would you describe the social class of the majority of your clientele base?
Middle class. Some upper and lower, but majority middle. Some at upper end.
4. In your opinion, if people in your clientele base were more willing to spend money on products made by businesses similar to your own, would it help end the Recession?
Yes. Anyone spending any money on anything puts money into the economy and it moves and it allows people to make money which generates jobs, more work. And those people earning money will again spend money, and so on.
5. Has your company tried to use any sort of incentive to increase sales?
Yes and no. Yes, we have. But no, because it's the same sale that we've had before, not a unique sale to this time period. We have not done anything different than we've done before since the recession, but our standard sales generation activities.
6. Did sales increase? Did profits increase?
Yes, sales do increase. But the reaction this year was not as much as in previous years. But it did generate sales when we had our promotion. No, profits actually decreased during the sale. The per unit profit was much smaller, but the total profit increased but it is not in a linear relationship with the number of units sold. Per units sold increase was smaller. 100 x 50 extra profit. So only 100 x 30. It increased at a much smaller rate.
7. If it did work, would you plan on using incentives in the future?
Yeah, we would. It's a standard time of the year sales promotion that we have. We would do it again next year. It helps generate a larger clientele base.
8. If there was not a Recession, would your company be more or less inclined to use incentives?
It would be the same. Neither more nor less. The reason for Bergen's is that we're a relatively small player in the industry in the US. So our focus is on incremental sales growth and we use a standard promotion at a particular time just to generate and flush out some particular inventory. And that allows us to get a product into the hands of the new customers that otherwise probably would not buy Bergen's, and thereby we get more people experiencing the quality of our product and that builds our loyalty so they'll come back and buy us at full price.
9. In your opinion, if the media did not hype up the Recession, would sales be different?
No, I think it would be similar because I think that most people make decisions based on their particular discretion. Not on whether or not the media is hyping it up, just based on whether or not they have money. Just on middle class people in our audience, people are smart enough to realize what they have to spend and they spend what they can.
Interview with Charles R. Gottschalk. Chuck is a Vice President and Financial Advisor to wealthy people at a company called Bernstein Global Wealth Management. He is my father.
1. Please describe your position and what you do.
I'm the Vice President and Financial Advisor at Bernstein Global Wealth Management, which is a Wealth Management company. We work with high end individuals to manage their money.
2. In your opinion, would you say that your clients are willing to spend their money on an above-average amount of luxuries?
It really depends on how much money they have and how secure they feel. If someone feels like they are being crunched by the recession, then they will not buy many luxuries. However, if someone feels like they are secure, they will spend normally.
3. In your opinion, has the recession that started in 2007 caused wealthy upper-class people to become more frugal?
Yes, most definitely.
4. In your opinion, would increased spending by upper-class people such as your clients help end the worldwide recession?
Yes. Anything that puts money in circulation has far-reaching benefits beyond what can normally be seen. It would certainly help quite a bit. Only a mild uptick would definitely help.
5. In your opinion, what could potentially end the recession, if not increased spending?
Increased spending by businesses would definitely help. Also, the world's economy in unstable throughout the entire world. Many nations are facing declines similar or worse than that of the United States. With a return of consumer confidence in the economy, spending will go up.
6. In your opinion, what main factors caused this recession to begin in 2007?
The burst of the housing bubble definitely was the main contributor. There were lax lending standards by banks which allowed for a run-up in investment far beyond what was realistic. Companies overextended with loans and business a lot. Values of houses plummeted when the housing bubble burst. There was a downward cycle, and a lot of credit froze. Nobody could borrow any money, and this caused massive layoffs by various businesses.
7. In your opinion, is the recession cause for more cautious spending by consumers (as opposed to needless worry or fear)?
It's not a cause to stop spending, but it's definitely a good reason to not overspend and be a little more cautious. It's certainly a wakeup call. It's just cause to be a lot more frugal if you are in unstable situation such as unemployment. It's OK to spend normal or slightly reduced amounts if you have some measure of stability. People need to get back to balanced spending.
1. Have sales for your business slowed down since December of 2007 (the start of the Recession)?
Slightly, but yes.
2. What makes you think that your sales have not dropped as much as the sales of other businesses?
I think I have a business that covers a lot of things for people in their homes and if people can't move and can't do major things, they will do small things. People like to be doing something, and my business allows people to do that without spending too much. I also have a huge clientele base.
3. How would you describe the social class of the majority of your clientele base?
Upper middle class to middle upper class. I have some pretty wealthy clients and they are secure in their finances. They're pretty situated.
4. In your opinion, if people in your clientele base spent more money than they do at small businesses, would it help end the Recession?
Yes, it most definitely would. Circulating money always helps. It's so far reaching, it helps everyone. Workers, suppliers, employees. It gives some confidence to the world that it's OK to spend.
5. Have you tried using any sort of incentive in order to increase sales?
Yes, a 20% discount that we do twice a year.
6. Did it work? If not, why don’t you think so?
Yes it does work.
7. If it did work, would you plan on using incentives in the future?
Yes, we plan on doing this more in the future.
8. If there was not a Recession, would you be more or less inclined to use incentives?
I've done this consistently throughout my years in business so I would likely continue to do it.
8.5.
They are not loyal because of the incentives, I have simply established a large clientele through good service.
9. In your opinion, if the media did not hype up the Recession, would sales be different?
They've hyped it up way too much. It would not be as bad. Honestly, it's probably mostly mental and a lot of it would not be as bad if people weren't being told it was as bad.
10. Have you ever tried collaborating with another small business owner to mutually increase sales?
No.
11. Why not?
Anybody who I would do that with would be a competitor, so I would not want to do that.
Interview with Jon Peder Bakken. Jon is the president of the northwest branch of Bergen's, which is a small company which specializes in alpine sportswear. He is the father of one of my best friends.
1. Have sales for your business slowed down since December of 2007 (the start of the Recession)?
Yes, they have.
2. What do you think the reason for this is?
People have less spending money. Less discretionary funds.
3. How would you describe the social class of the majority of your clientele base?
Middle class. Some upper and lower, but majority middle. Some at upper end.
4. In your opinion, if people in your clientele base were more willing to spend money on products made by businesses similar to your own, would it help end the Recession?
Yes. Anyone spending any money on anything puts money into the economy and it moves and it allows people to make money which generates jobs, more work. And those people earning money will again spend money, and so on.
5. Has your company tried to use any sort of incentive to increase sales?
Yes and no. Yes, we have. But no, because it's the same sale that we've had before, not a unique sale to this time period. We have not done anything different than we've done before since the recession, but our standard sales generation activities.
6. Did sales increase? Did profits increase?
Yes, sales do increase. But the reaction this year was not as much as in previous years. But it did generate sales when we had our promotion. No, profits actually decreased during the sale. The per unit profit was much smaller, but the total profit increased but it is not in a linear relationship with the number of units sold. Per units sold increase was smaller. 100 x 50 extra profit. So only 100 x 30. It increased at a much smaller rate.
7. If it did work, would you plan on using incentives in the future?
Yeah, we would. It's a standard time of the year sales promotion that we have. We would do it again next year. It helps generate a larger clientele base.
8. If there was not a Recession, would your company be more or less inclined to use incentives?
It would be the same. Neither more nor less. The reason for Bergen's is that we're a relatively small player in the industry in the US. So our focus is on incremental sales growth and we use a standard promotion at a particular time just to generate and flush out some particular inventory. And that allows us to get a product into the hands of the new customers that otherwise probably would not buy Bergen's, and thereby we get more people experiencing the quality of our product and that builds our loyalty so they'll come back and buy us at full price.
9. In your opinion, if the media did not hype up the Recession, would sales be different?
No, I think it would be similar because I think that most people make decisions based on their particular discretion. Not on whether or not the media is hyping it up, just based on whether or not they have money. Just on middle class people in our audience, people are smart enough to realize what they have to spend and they spend what they can.
Interview with Charles R. Gottschalk. Chuck is a Vice President and Financial Advisor to wealthy people at a company called Bernstein Global Wealth Management. He is my father.
1. Please describe your position and what you do.
I'm the Vice President and Financial Advisor at Bernstein Global Wealth Management, which is a Wealth Management company. We work with high end individuals to manage their money.
2. In your opinion, would you say that your clients are willing to spend their money on an above-average amount of luxuries?
It really depends on how much money they have and how secure they feel. If someone feels like they are being crunched by the recession, then they will not buy many luxuries. However, if someone feels like they are secure, they will spend normally.
3. In your opinion, has the recession that started in 2007 caused wealthy upper-class people to become more frugal?
Yes, most definitely.
4. In your opinion, would increased spending by upper-class people such as your clients help end the worldwide recession?
Yes. Anything that puts money in circulation has far-reaching benefits beyond what can normally be seen. It would certainly help quite a bit. Only a mild uptick would definitely help.
5. In your opinion, what could potentially end the recession, if not increased spending?
Increased spending by businesses would definitely help. Also, the world's economy in unstable throughout the entire world. Many nations are facing declines similar or worse than that of the United States. With a return of consumer confidence in the economy, spending will go up.
6. In your opinion, what main factors caused this recession to begin in 2007?
The burst of the housing bubble definitely was the main contributor. There were lax lending standards by banks which allowed for a run-up in investment far beyond what was realistic. Companies overextended with loans and business a lot. Values of houses plummeted when the housing bubble burst. There was a downward cycle, and a lot of credit froze. Nobody could borrow any money, and this caused massive layoffs by various businesses.
7. In your opinion, is the recession cause for more cautious spending by consumers (as opposed to needless worry or fear)?
It's not a cause to stop spending, but it's definitely a good reason to not overspend and be a little more cautious. It's certainly a wakeup call. It's just cause to be a lot more frugal if you are in unstable situation such as unemployment. It's OK to spend normal or slightly reduced amounts if you have some measure of stability. People need to get back to balanced spending.
Vietnam and Returning Veteran PTSD, Hanna Engel
Interview One
Ron Voxmire, Unknown (60s-80s)
(Vietnam veteran and employee at VA in downtown Seattle)
My dad was a veteran from World War II, so I was stupid enough to volunteer for the army. There was something like 300 dead a week, not like the 8 or something dead we have in Iraq - it was brutal. I got to be an officer. I went to OCS - that's like officer training camp. We couldn't walk on the floor, we had to climb all over the furniture so that we wouldn't mess up the floor. And then the officers would walk in with their muddy boots and we would have to stay up all night cleaning it again. We went through all kinds of crap to survive. When I broke my leg in training, I was stationed in Maryland. I was there when I got orders to go to Vietnam.
I was in the 196 American Division.
When I got there, they asked if anyone knew any foreign languages, and I said I took some Spanish in high school. That's why they made me an advisor to the Vietnamese. The next days, I was in an infantry unit. I was in the middle of everything. I was supposed to tell the Vietnamese how to fight their own war - it was really stupid. We slept on long planks of wood in these grass huts - me and a Vietnamese family; a man, his wife, and their son. We ate what they ate - dog, rat, things that we don't eat here.
[Do you speak Vietnamese?]
No, not very much. [says a few words in Vietnamese] That means hello or something. [Laughs] I don't really remember. I don't speak much at all.
Both of my roommates were killed during the war. In my troop, there were 24 of us, and 17 died there in Vietnam. But we were all very patriotic. We loved our country.
We got no business to go over there. What right do we have to put our values on them? We're doing the same thing in Afghanistan now. But I'm an American, so if they asked me to do it again, I would. I wouldn't want to be in the infantry, but I would do it.
[What was your daily life like in Vietnam?]
Every vet will give you a different answer. I lived with the Vietnamese, I saw the Vietnamese dead all the time. Seeing them killed didn't affect me the same way it would've affected me to see my fellow American soldiers being killed. Every once in a while I would see one of my American friends, a guy I'd known and trained with for 7 or 8 months. It was sad.
War is boredom interrupted by extreme terror. Most people don't realize that. It isn't the way it looks in the movies or on TV. Sometimes you would get on a helicopter and when you landed you would have to duck and cover. It would blow up behind you and you would have to run because people would be shooting at you. You always had to be alert. It was terrifying. You'd sleep with your boots on, and then you'd get up and eat breakfast with the Vietnamese officers. Yes, the ones on our side. None of our officers turned out to be Viet Cong traitors, no. Once in a while we would have to go on watch. We would sleep in the water and mud. No one tells you you don't wear underwear because you're so dirty. You'd be going diarrhea in your uniform because it didn't make any difference. And then you would come to a river and try to clean yourself up, and then do it all over again.
[Did you see any of the guerilla combat?]
Always. That's all I saw. You see, there was the Viet Cong, and they didn't support the South Vietnamese government. But the South Vietnamese government was corrupt too. The south had lots of rice and oil. The Viet Cong wanted to unite the country. Yes, they were the communists. There was Viet Cong in the South that were fighting for the north. That's who we were fighting.
[Could you tell the civilians apart from the guerilla fighters?]
No, you couldn't. They all looked the same. We killed so many innocent people, because we just didn't know. We couldn't trust anyone because no one knew the difference. One day they'd be a friendly guy at the market and the next day they'd be shooting at you. My biggest fear when I was there was getting shot at while I was in the bathroom. Going pee was the worst. They would all crowd around like, it's the American peeing. I would be eating lunch in the market, but I would have one hand on my gun in my lap. But I loved the kids there.
At the house where I was stationed, I had this house boy, Yui. He would cook dinner and wash my clothes, kind of like a butler, and I would pay him a little bit. Being an officer you get that kind of thing. One night I woke up and he was shooting at me. He died shortly after that. Once we caught a bunch of guys from this village and we killed all of them. The next day the chief brought this box to me. It had Yui's wife's head in it. Turns out he was headed to kill me, so they had to execute his wife to release her spirit. That's what they believed.
In Iraq, the snipers keep kill books. I know this one guy, he killed over a hundred people. That really weighted on him after. Did you know the average age of the people he killed? Under ten years old. They send out their little kids with cell phones to detonate the bombs in the passing trucks. So the snipers come through, see little kids on the street, and shoot them.
[What's it like to kill somebody?]
At the time, it's kind of fun. It's kind of comical. When you shoot them, they kind of dance around for a little bit. It's when you get home that you think, What the hell did I do? It's when you get home.
[Did you come back with any symptoms of PTSD, depression, bad dreams, etc?]
Yeah, when I came back I had nightmares every night. I still have them. Being an officer, I don't have emotional problems. That's what they thought for a long time. I was the one treating the other soldiers. But I realized in 1998, two ex wives later, that I was a little screwed up. I had major issues.
[When you came back, how did people react?]
We were spit on. When we came home, private airlines flew us out. 15 hours later, you're in Oakland, California. It was bizarre. There were people screaming and protesting at the gates. They called us baby killers. One of my army friends got his arms blown off by a rocket in Vietnam. When he got off the plane, he was riding in the top stretcher in this ambulance. He saw all these little kids with McDonalds hats on. That really changed him. War changes people. How stupid are people, to not realize how war changes people? Did you know only one percent of soldiers go to combat? It's hard to accept the idea that life goes on.
I was having lunch with Jim McDermott a couple days ago, and we were talking about how people don't really understand what it is to be a veteran anymore. It's like people can't separate the man from the war.
Interview Two
Tom McBride, 57
[What was your situation during the Vietnam War?]
I wasn’t there, no. Never been to Vietnam. I was in the navy for a couple years, right around when it ended.
[Did you know anyone who was there in Vietnam?]
Yeah, a couple of my high school buddies were over there. I know one who volunteered, Brian or something about the time I enlisted in the Navy but he opted for the army, but I heard a couple were drafted. We lost touch, of course. I heard later a couple of them died. Mostly on the front, yeah. I assume some survived, but we lost touch. It was brutal over there.
[How’d you avoid the draft?]
I enlisted in the navy. I was in London, luckily for me. It was the worst for the people who were drafted. They were the ones that got sent straight to the front. Lucky for me, I wasn’t one of those people. When you’re poor, you also get sent to be killed first. My family didn’t have that much money, so I guess I was just lucky. What did I do over there? Mostly communications stuff, on the computer, I wasn’t fighting in the navy or anything. It was nice there, but people didn’t really appreciate that we were there. [laughs] Yeah, that they made that pretty clear.
[What did you hear about the war while you were in the navy or at home?]
Not much. You get kind of a weird view over there, because they’re not talking about Vietnam. We’re focused on what we’re doing, in London. But of course everyone there loves America. In the navy, yeah. But what when I was home in America, lots of headlines about deaths. It didn’t really register because I wasn’t there.
[What was your opinion about the war?]
Now or then? Then? I supported it. We all did in the navy. I mean, some people changed their minds later on, including me. Now I think it’s stupid. Unfortunate that all those people had to waste their lives, and it was pretty much for nothing. I feel like people’s opinions changed when we weren’t winning anything. It was like, what the f*** are we doing here? Yeah.
[What did you think of the veterans?]
I didn’t really have a strong opinion. A lot of people had brothers, fathers, friends or whatever, that were over there, but I didn’t. A lot of people, hippies and stuff, really hated them. Peace, love, that kinda crap.
[Can you tell me more about that?]
Yeah. They were really - there were some people who supported them and all, but a lot of times they would come home, and people would stay away from them. Veterans had kind of this reputation, like stay away, ‘cause they’re angry from the war. It was hard to relate with them for a lot of people. So many of them came back depressed, crazy. They just didn’t fit back in well. People around them wouldn’t let them forget it either. Lots of protests, yeah. You’d be driving home and there would be people on the street with signs protesting the war, yelling and stuff.
Interview Three
Ed Strasbourger, 61
Via Email
Question 1: What is your involvement with the Vietnam War? This can be people who you know who were veterans, if your work coincided with the war, etc (your involvement at WestPoint?)
No involvement at all directly. I was just in the United States at the time of the war. Some friends of mine were involved.
Question 2: If you knew anyone who was a veteran, what was their experience?
Yes.
Ken Ludovici's experience is unknown to me. Herm Marmon's experience is mostly unknown, except that he played tennis with South Vietnam's chief of staff, later vice president of South Vietnam.
Question 3: How did they change? Did they return with any form of PTSD (post traumatic stress disorder that manifests itself in the form of depression, anxiety, hostility, alcoholism, etc)?
No detectable change in Ken. Herm returned a different person. He was diagnosed with depression we grew apart after his return.
Question 4: What was your personal opinion about the Vietnam War?
All wars are bad, especially those that are lost.
Question 5: How did you feel towards the returning veterans (ex angry, sympathetic)?
I feel sorry for the response given to the guardians of our freedom. They should have been celebrated as veterans from previous wars have been regardless of the result of the war. I am frustrated that they are not separated from the war itself; many do not realize that the veterans in Vietnam were following orders, not killing innocent children and women just to do so.
Question 6: Were you involved in the hippy movement? If so what was their stance on the war?
Yes and many of my friends. We were all against the war. I participated in marches protesting the war.
Question 7: What seemed to be the public opinion towards the returning veterans?
Many vilified the returning veterans.
Interview Reflections
1.
a.) It was awkward at first, but he was very friendly. He had a very 'to the point' kind of attitude which made me a little uncomfortable; he was very honest about his experience. He didn't shy away from adding any gruesome details, which were uncomforting but made for a better and more informative interview. He didn't get overly emotional, although he seemed to often get a caught up in the events he was describing.
b.) This interview was done over the phone, which made things less personal and hence less awkward than the first interview. Also, he was the uncle of a friend and because she was with me at the time it was less awkward. His experience was less personal because he was not affected emotionally by the event, which made the interview more relaxed as well.
c.) This interview wasn’t awkward at all because it was done over the email and the person contacted was relative of another friend. Because there was nothing that personal except for some of his friends that were involved, it made it less awkward as well.
2.
a.)What really struck me in this interview was his openness, especially with his personal experience. During the interview when I was thinking of another question for him, he asked me "Don't you want to know what it was like to kill someone? Most people ask me that question." It really took me off guard, especially at the raw honesty of his response. It was striking to see that the normal experience for a soldier included so much violence.
b.) It surprised me how disconnected he was from the event. I thought everyone at that time in the United States would be significantly affected by the war but he didn't seemed to be or have very strong opinions. It struck me that a lot of people in the navy lost faith in their country as well over the war, towards the end of it. That's weird because I'm sure the Navy would like to instill faith in the army in their employees.
c.) In this interview it was surprising that he was not involved with the war at all. I was expecting that he might have had to dodge a draft but he escaped all of that.
3.
a.)His experience did match what I had read about in some ways, but was much more severe than a lot of things I had read. You would expect stories about the horrors of war to be an experience one out of many soldiers would experience, but apparently most soldiers actually in Vietnam experienced things like he had. So in that way they matched very closely. Also, the fact that they could not tell the enemy from the civilians turned out to match his testimony.
b.) In my historical context I discuss the general publics' opinion of the Vietnam war, which seemed to match with what my interviewee was describing. The negative attitudes the people had towards the war that he described may have to do with the fact that he lived in Seattle after his time in the Navy, but it also matches with general research I have done.
c.) In my historical context I discuss the differences in the personalities of veterans upon returning from the war. This was briefly confirmed in part of this interview. I also discuss how returning veterans were negatively looked upon by many people upon returning home, which this interview also confirms. Also it confirmed the point of view of the hippies at that time towards the Vietnam War.
4. If I were going to expand this project I would want to include some Vietnamese perspectives as well as some more soldiers' experiences. Also I would like to look at a perspective of someone who was a protester and hater of returning veterans to understand why they would villainize the veterans and not the government.
5.
a.) I wish I had interviewed him on what knew from his friends' experiences. Also, it would have been valuable to take a camera because he ended up showing many slides of pictures he took on one of his missions on a projector at the end of the interview. These really made his story real, especially hearing the stories behind each picture. This would have been nice to include with the interview.
b.) If I could redo my interview with him I would do it face to face. I feel that body language in an interview can tell you a lot about what a person is thinking or willing to expand on. I would have liked to go into further depth what he was doing in London and what kind of riots were happening over the Vietnam War in the United States.
c.) I wish I could have interviewed the people that he mentioned in his interview, though unfortunately they could not give me the telephone numbers of those individuals (they had been misplaced). I also wish I would have sent a couple of follow up questions because the interview was shorter than I would have liked. I could have asked him to explain more to his knowledge what kind of protesting was taking place and which were directly aimed at the returning veterans, not just the Vietnam War.
6.
a.) This interview shed light on the veterans' experience, what experiences led to PTSD. It put into perspective why they might come home depressed and angry and why the attitudes of the public upon returning home might have affected them. It also confirmed that most veterans were not treated like heroes upon returning to the United States.
b.) This interview confirmed my research in terms of the attitudes many people had about returning veterans. It confirmed why veterans might have felt alienated upon returning from Vietnam. Also, it shed some light upon how much the war impacted each person in the United States; not everyone back home was affected so heavily by the war.
c.) This interview was helpful in that it provided an opinion of the war from someone part of the hippy movement in the states during the Vietnam War. It was also helpful that he had a friend that came back with depression because that also confirms my research and the statistics I have looked at.
Hanna Engel
Mr. NK period 3
June 11, 2010
Final Essay
A Background of the Vietnam War and the Experience of Returning American Veterans
In the 1960’s after World War II, communism was spreading rapidly throughout Asia, inspiring the Red Terror and threatening the economy and ideals of the United States and European Nations who were strongly opposed to it. The Vietnam War, 1959 to 1975, was essentially a proxy war between the French, United States and Britain against China and Vietnam, instigated by the overwhelming spread of Communism and the vulnerable position of a divided nation (Hickman). This divide occurred after the end of the Japanese occupation of the country five years after the Geneva Accords, which split the country into Northern Vietnam, controlled by Ho Chi Minh, and south Vietnam which was under the control of Ngo Dinh Diem (Hickman). During the war Ho Chi Minh, the communist leader of North Vietnam controlled the Viet Cong, which were Vietnamese communist soldiers who fought against the Americans and Northern Alliance, mainly South Vietnamese who opposed Ho Chi Minh (Hickman), (History Learning). Many factors contributed to making this war a unique one in the history of the United States, primarily that it was the first major war lost by the United States. These differences and the fact that there were no boundaries, a lower average age in soldiers and increasing front line contact in the war accounted for an abnormally high percentage of returning veterans afflicted with PTSD; approximately 27% of women and 30% of men were diagnosed with PTSD at some point in their life after the Vietnam War (Cromie). Many people in Vietnam also developed PTSD (History Learning). Both soldiers and civilians who witnessed the war and were affected by the brutality were prone to developing PTSD (History Learning). However, for the purposes of this paper we will focus on the manifestation of PTSD in American Vietnam War veterans in correlation with the Vietnam War.
Most of the Vietnam War consisted of Guerrilla warfare in the jungles of South Vietnam and along the borders of Cambodia and Laos. Troops were constantly under attack and the enemy could not be identified from other Vietnamese civilians because the Viet Cong often did not wear uniforms to identify themselves (Voxmire). American soldiers would have to wade through mud and water to their necks through areas of conflict, constantly on the alert for an attack. Leaches were often a problem in these waters (Voxmire). Newer, deadlier weapons were created such as M48 tank and new and improved machine guns. Also new planes and helicopters were developed, most notably the Bell UH-1 Helicopter and the B-52 Stratofortress (PBS). The new developments in flying technology meant fewer casualties because more lives could be saved because medical attention was usually less than fifteen minutes away now that medical units could travel quickly by helicopter (Scott). However, this also meant 13,167 soldiers returning home fully disabled, whether physically of neurologically because those with highly impairing injuries were often rescued by medical teams unlike soldiers during World War II who usually died as a result of seriously impairing injuries (McGovern). There was a reported 58, 193 American Casualties as a result of the war (Hull).
The Vietnam War was very different from other wars fought by the United States up to that time. First, the average age of the soldier was nineteen, seven years younger than those soldiers who served in World War II (Scott) (Voxmire). War was much more stressful and dangerous as there were no back lines to seek refuge from the conflict and infantrymen were often exposed to this for three hundred or more days (Scott). This was significantly longer than other wars like World War II where soldiers served an average of sixty days at a time in combat (Scott). These stress-inducing conditions had a huge impact on the mental health of returning veterans who also had to deal with the immense losses of their colleagues and friends who were killed in combat. No boundaries in the Vietnam War, unlike other previous wars meant that motivating the public for the war cause was difficult because there was nothing to show for their advancements except death counts (Karnow). Also, the enemy could often not be told apart from the civilians; everyone was the enemy and none could be trusted (Scott). Because of advanced technology, there was more mobility and firepower that resulted in higher casualties for both sides than would have previously resulted without this new technology. Lastly, when Veterans returned with the war lost they were shunned by society and the government, especially because the hippy movement had just taken off, which took a large mental toll on soldiers (Scott). When soldiers returned homes many were often met by protesters who labeled them as ‘baby killers’ (Voxmire).
Because of these differences, veterans returned with a multitude of mental conflicts including depression, anxiety and PTSD. Many vets became alcoholics, drug addicted and jobless (Wright). Divorce rates surged among veteran families (Voxmire). Twenty-seven to thirty percent of returning veterans were diagnosed with PTSD upon returning home. PTSD symptoms for returning Vietnam veterans include nightmares, flashbacks, anxiety, sleep complications, apathy, rage and low motivation (Scott). They also returned with an extreme sense of guilt that was not easily evaded (Spiller). The Veterans Association was not able to deal with this new surge of mental illness and most were not treated right away. Crime rose significantly in the veteran population, a report in June of 1973 reported that thirty-two percent of county federal prison occupants were veterans, more than half of whom had been involved in direct combat. Many veterans formed their own help groups, using Marijuana as an escape from their troubles (Voxmire). Because veterans had to be able to wake at a moment’s notice, many wake throughout the night at any sound (Voxmire).
The Vietnam War has had lasting impacts on the United States and Vietnam that are still evident today. The United States was faced with a large war debt, and the government lost significant trust from the people, especially the military. A law was passed in congress in 1973 that forbade soldiers to be in direct contact for over ninety days without government approval, and that the military needed congressional approval before oversea combat could commence (Sitikoff). Veterans caused significant problems upon returning home as many took up crime, delving further into depression and despair in reaction to the negative attitudes of the public towards them. This attitude was not addressed fully until 1982 when a consensus was reached by the public that the veterans deserve recognition and respect (Sitikoff).
The Vietnamese people were also highly impacted by the Vietnam War. Between one and two million Vietnamese people died, both Northern and Southern Vietnamese, both civilians and soldiers (History Learning). Many Vietnamese veterans also suffered from PTSD and depression, similar to the returning American veterans. Some South Vietnamese, supporters of the Northern Alliance immigrated to the United States. The victory of the North meant a united communist Vietnam under Ho Chi Minh (History Learning).
Works Cited
Cromie, William J. "Mental Casualties of the Vietnam War Persist." Harvard University Gazette 17 Aug. 2006. Print.
Hickman, Kennedy. "Vietnam War-Introduction to the Vietnam War - Summary of the Vietnam War." MilitaryHistoryAbout.com. 2006. Web. 04 June 2010..
History Learning. "The Vietnam War." Digital History. 2006. Web. 04 June 2010..
Hull, Theodore J. "Statistical Information about Casualties of the Vietnam War." National Archives and Records Administration. National Archives, 1998. Web. 11 June 2010..
Karnow, Stanley. "The War Nobody Won." Vietnam: A History. WGBH Educational Association, 1977. 32-35. Print.
McGovern, George. A Time to Heal. Washington Indochina Research Center, 1976. Print.
PBS. "American Experience | PBS | Vietnam Online." PBS. 05. Web. 04 June 2010..
Scott, Wayne J. "PostTraumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD): An Australian Vietnam Veteran's Experience." Vietnam Veterans Association of Australia. Veterans Association, 2001. Web. 01 June 2010..
Sitikoff, Harvard. "The Postwar Impact of Vietnam." Welcome to English « Department of English, College of LAS, University of Illinois. Oxford UP, 1999. Web. 04 June 2010..
Spiller, Harry. Scars of Vietnam: Personal Accounts by Veterans and Their Families. Jefferson, N.C.: McFarland, 1994. Print.
Voxmire, Ron. Personal interview. 09 June 2010.
Wright, David K. War in Vietnam. Chicago: Childrens, 1989. 64-67. Print.
Ron Voxmire, Unknown (60s-80s)
(Vietnam veteran and employee at VA in downtown Seattle)
My dad was a veteran from World War II, so I was stupid enough to volunteer for the army. There was something like 300 dead a week, not like the 8 or something dead we have in Iraq - it was brutal. I got to be an officer. I went to OCS - that's like officer training camp. We couldn't walk on the floor, we had to climb all over the furniture so that we wouldn't mess up the floor. And then the officers would walk in with their muddy boots and we would have to stay up all night cleaning it again. We went through all kinds of crap to survive. When I broke my leg in training, I was stationed in Maryland. I was there when I got orders to go to Vietnam.
I was in the 196 American Division.
When I got there, they asked if anyone knew any foreign languages, and I said I took some Spanish in high school. That's why they made me an advisor to the Vietnamese. The next days, I was in an infantry unit. I was in the middle of everything. I was supposed to tell the Vietnamese how to fight their own war - it was really stupid. We slept on long planks of wood in these grass huts - me and a Vietnamese family; a man, his wife, and their son. We ate what they ate - dog, rat, things that we don't eat here.
[Do you speak Vietnamese?]
No, not very much. [says a few words in Vietnamese] That means hello or something. [Laughs] I don't really remember. I don't speak much at all.
Both of my roommates were killed during the war. In my troop, there were 24 of us, and 17 died there in Vietnam. But we were all very patriotic. We loved our country.
We got no business to go over there. What right do we have to put our values on them? We're doing the same thing in Afghanistan now. But I'm an American, so if they asked me to do it again, I would. I wouldn't want to be in the infantry, but I would do it.
[What was your daily life like in Vietnam?]
Every vet will give you a different answer. I lived with the Vietnamese, I saw the Vietnamese dead all the time. Seeing them killed didn't affect me the same way it would've affected me to see my fellow American soldiers being killed. Every once in a while I would see one of my American friends, a guy I'd known and trained with for 7 or 8 months. It was sad.
War is boredom interrupted by extreme terror. Most people don't realize that. It isn't the way it looks in the movies or on TV. Sometimes you would get on a helicopter and when you landed you would have to duck and cover. It would blow up behind you and you would have to run because people would be shooting at you. You always had to be alert. It was terrifying. You'd sleep with your boots on, and then you'd get up and eat breakfast with the Vietnamese officers. Yes, the ones on our side. None of our officers turned out to be Viet Cong traitors, no. Once in a while we would have to go on watch. We would sleep in the water and mud. No one tells you you don't wear underwear because you're so dirty. You'd be going diarrhea in your uniform because it didn't make any difference. And then you would come to a river and try to clean yourself up, and then do it all over again.
[Did you see any of the guerilla combat?]
Always. That's all I saw. You see, there was the Viet Cong, and they didn't support the South Vietnamese government. But the South Vietnamese government was corrupt too. The south had lots of rice and oil. The Viet Cong wanted to unite the country. Yes, they were the communists. There was Viet Cong in the South that were fighting for the north. That's who we were fighting.
[Could you tell the civilians apart from the guerilla fighters?]
No, you couldn't. They all looked the same. We killed so many innocent people, because we just didn't know. We couldn't trust anyone because no one knew the difference. One day they'd be a friendly guy at the market and the next day they'd be shooting at you. My biggest fear when I was there was getting shot at while I was in the bathroom. Going pee was the worst. They would all crowd around like, it's the American peeing. I would be eating lunch in the market, but I would have one hand on my gun in my lap. But I loved the kids there.
At the house where I was stationed, I had this house boy, Yui. He would cook dinner and wash my clothes, kind of like a butler, and I would pay him a little bit. Being an officer you get that kind of thing. One night I woke up and he was shooting at me. He died shortly after that. Once we caught a bunch of guys from this village and we killed all of them. The next day the chief brought this box to me. It had Yui's wife's head in it. Turns out he was headed to kill me, so they had to execute his wife to release her spirit. That's what they believed.
In Iraq, the snipers keep kill books. I know this one guy, he killed over a hundred people. That really weighted on him after. Did you know the average age of the people he killed? Under ten years old. They send out their little kids with cell phones to detonate the bombs in the passing trucks. So the snipers come through, see little kids on the street, and shoot them.
[What's it like to kill somebody?]
At the time, it's kind of fun. It's kind of comical. When you shoot them, they kind of dance around for a little bit. It's when you get home that you think, What the hell did I do? It's when you get home.
[Did you come back with any symptoms of PTSD, depression, bad dreams, etc?]
Yeah, when I came back I had nightmares every night. I still have them. Being an officer, I don't have emotional problems. That's what they thought for a long time. I was the one treating the other soldiers. But I realized in 1998, two ex wives later, that I was a little screwed up. I had major issues.
[When you came back, how did people react?]
We were spit on. When we came home, private airlines flew us out. 15 hours later, you're in Oakland, California. It was bizarre. There were people screaming and protesting at the gates. They called us baby killers. One of my army friends got his arms blown off by a rocket in Vietnam. When he got off the plane, he was riding in the top stretcher in this ambulance. He saw all these little kids with McDonalds hats on. That really changed him. War changes people. How stupid are people, to not realize how war changes people? Did you know only one percent of soldiers go to combat? It's hard to accept the idea that life goes on.
I was having lunch with Jim McDermott a couple days ago, and we were talking about how people don't really understand what it is to be a veteran anymore. It's like people can't separate the man from the war.
Interview Two
Tom McBride, 57
[What was your situation during the Vietnam War?]
I wasn’t there, no. Never been to Vietnam. I was in the navy for a couple years, right around when it ended.
[Did you know anyone who was there in Vietnam?]
Yeah, a couple of my high school buddies were over there. I know one who volunteered, Brian or something about the time I enlisted in the Navy but he opted for the army, but I heard a couple were drafted. We lost touch, of course. I heard later a couple of them died. Mostly on the front, yeah. I assume some survived, but we lost touch. It was brutal over there.
[How’d you avoid the draft?]
I enlisted in the navy. I was in London, luckily for me. It was the worst for the people who were drafted. They were the ones that got sent straight to the front. Lucky for me, I wasn’t one of those people. When you’re poor, you also get sent to be killed first. My family didn’t have that much money, so I guess I was just lucky. What did I do over there? Mostly communications stuff, on the computer, I wasn’t fighting in the navy or anything. It was nice there, but people didn’t really appreciate that we were there. [laughs] Yeah, that they made that pretty clear.
[What did you hear about the war while you were in the navy or at home?]
Not much. You get kind of a weird view over there, because they’re not talking about Vietnam. We’re focused on what we’re doing, in London. But of course everyone there loves America. In the navy, yeah. But what when I was home in America, lots of headlines about deaths. It didn’t really register because I wasn’t there.
[What was your opinion about the war?]
Now or then? Then? I supported it. We all did in the navy. I mean, some people changed their minds later on, including me. Now I think it’s stupid. Unfortunate that all those people had to waste their lives, and it was pretty much for nothing. I feel like people’s opinions changed when we weren’t winning anything. It was like, what the f*** are we doing here? Yeah.
[What did you think of the veterans?]
I didn’t really have a strong opinion. A lot of people had brothers, fathers, friends or whatever, that were over there, but I didn’t. A lot of people, hippies and stuff, really hated them. Peace, love, that kinda crap.
[Can you tell me more about that?]
Yeah. They were really - there were some people who supported them and all, but a lot of times they would come home, and people would stay away from them. Veterans had kind of this reputation, like stay away, ‘cause they’re angry from the war. It was hard to relate with them for a lot of people. So many of them came back depressed, crazy. They just didn’t fit back in well. People around them wouldn’t let them forget it either. Lots of protests, yeah. You’d be driving home and there would be people on the street with signs protesting the war, yelling and stuff.
Interview Three
Ed Strasbourger, 61
Via Email
Question 1: What is your involvement with the Vietnam War? This can be people who you know who were veterans, if your work coincided with the war, etc (your involvement at WestPoint?)
No involvement at all directly. I was just in the United States at the time of the war. Some friends of mine were involved.
Question 2: If you knew anyone who was a veteran, what was their experience?
Yes.
Ken Ludovici's experience is unknown to me. Herm Marmon's experience is mostly unknown, except that he played tennis with South Vietnam's chief of staff, later vice president of South Vietnam.
Question 3: How did they change? Did they return with any form of PTSD (post traumatic stress disorder that manifests itself in the form of depression, anxiety, hostility, alcoholism, etc)?
No detectable change in Ken. Herm returned a different person. He was diagnosed with depression we grew apart after his return.
Question 4: What was your personal opinion about the Vietnam War?
All wars are bad, especially those that are lost.
Question 5: How did you feel towards the returning veterans (ex angry, sympathetic)?
I feel sorry for the response given to the guardians of our freedom. They should have been celebrated as veterans from previous wars have been regardless of the result of the war. I am frustrated that they are not separated from the war itself; many do not realize that the veterans in Vietnam were following orders, not killing innocent children and women just to do so.
Question 6: Were you involved in the hippy movement? If so what was their stance on the war?
Yes and many of my friends. We were all against the war. I participated in marches protesting the war.
Question 7: What seemed to be the public opinion towards the returning veterans?
Many vilified the returning veterans.
Interview Reflections
1.
a.) It was awkward at first, but he was very friendly. He had a very 'to the point' kind of attitude which made me a little uncomfortable; he was very honest about his experience. He didn't shy away from adding any gruesome details, which were uncomforting but made for a better and more informative interview. He didn't get overly emotional, although he seemed to often get a caught up in the events he was describing.
b.) This interview was done over the phone, which made things less personal and hence less awkward than the first interview. Also, he was the uncle of a friend and because she was with me at the time it was less awkward. His experience was less personal because he was not affected emotionally by the event, which made the interview more relaxed as well.
c.) This interview wasn’t awkward at all because it was done over the email and the person contacted was relative of another friend. Because there was nothing that personal except for some of his friends that were involved, it made it less awkward as well.
2.
a.)What really struck me in this interview was his openness, especially with his personal experience. During the interview when I was thinking of another question for him, he asked me "Don't you want to know what it was like to kill someone? Most people ask me that question." It really took me off guard, especially at the raw honesty of his response. It was striking to see that the normal experience for a soldier included so much violence.
b.) It surprised me how disconnected he was from the event. I thought everyone at that time in the United States would be significantly affected by the war but he didn't seemed to be or have very strong opinions. It struck me that a lot of people in the navy lost faith in their country as well over the war, towards the end of it. That's weird because I'm sure the Navy would like to instill faith in the army in their employees.
c.) In this interview it was surprising that he was not involved with the war at all. I was expecting that he might have had to dodge a draft but he escaped all of that.
3.
a.)His experience did match what I had read about in some ways, but was much more severe than a lot of things I had read. You would expect stories about the horrors of war to be an experience one out of many soldiers would experience, but apparently most soldiers actually in Vietnam experienced things like he had. So in that way they matched very closely. Also, the fact that they could not tell the enemy from the civilians turned out to match his testimony.
b.) In my historical context I discuss the general publics' opinion of the Vietnam war, which seemed to match with what my interviewee was describing. The negative attitudes the people had towards the war that he described may have to do with the fact that he lived in Seattle after his time in the Navy, but it also matches with general research I have done.
c.) In my historical context I discuss the differences in the personalities of veterans upon returning from the war. This was briefly confirmed in part of this interview. I also discuss how returning veterans were negatively looked upon by many people upon returning home, which this interview also confirms. Also it confirmed the point of view of the hippies at that time towards the Vietnam War.
4. If I were going to expand this project I would want to include some Vietnamese perspectives as well as some more soldiers' experiences. Also I would like to look at a perspective of someone who was a protester and hater of returning veterans to understand why they would villainize the veterans and not the government.
5.
a.) I wish I had interviewed him on what knew from his friends' experiences. Also, it would have been valuable to take a camera because he ended up showing many slides of pictures he took on one of his missions on a projector at the end of the interview. These really made his story real, especially hearing the stories behind each picture. This would have been nice to include with the interview.
b.) If I could redo my interview with him I would do it face to face. I feel that body language in an interview can tell you a lot about what a person is thinking or willing to expand on. I would have liked to go into further depth what he was doing in London and what kind of riots were happening over the Vietnam War in the United States.
c.) I wish I could have interviewed the people that he mentioned in his interview, though unfortunately they could not give me the telephone numbers of those individuals (they had been misplaced). I also wish I would have sent a couple of follow up questions because the interview was shorter than I would have liked. I could have asked him to explain more to his knowledge what kind of protesting was taking place and which were directly aimed at the returning veterans, not just the Vietnam War.
6.
a.) This interview shed light on the veterans' experience, what experiences led to PTSD. It put into perspective why they might come home depressed and angry and why the attitudes of the public upon returning home might have affected them. It also confirmed that most veterans were not treated like heroes upon returning to the United States.
b.) This interview confirmed my research in terms of the attitudes many people had about returning veterans. It confirmed why veterans might have felt alienated upon returning from Vietnam. Also, it shed some light upon how much the war impacted each person in the United States; not everyone back home was affected so heavily by the war.
c.) This interview was helpful in that it provided an opinion of the war from someone part of the hippy movement in the states during the Vietnam War. It was also helpful that he had a friend that came back with depression because that also confirms my research and the statistics I have looked at.
Hanna Engel
Mr. NK period 3
June 11, 2010
Final Essay
A Background of the Vietnam War and the Experience of Returning American Veterans
In the 1960’s after World War II, communism was spreading rapidly throughout Asia, inspiring the Red Terror and threatening the economy and ideals of the United States and European Nations who were strongly opposed to it. The Vietnam War, 1959 to 1975, was essentially a proxy war between the French, United States and Britain against China and Vietnam, instigated by the overwhelming spread of Communism and the vulnerable position of a divided nation (Hickman). This divide occurred after the end of the Japanese occupation of the country five years after the Geneva Accords, which split the country into Northern Vietnam, controlled by Ho Chi Minh, and south Vietnam which was under the control of Ngo Dinh Diem (Hickman). During the war Ho Chi Minh, the communist leader of North Vietnam controlled the Viet Cong, which were Vietnamese communist soldiers who fought against the Americans and Northern Alliance, mainly South Vietnamese who opposed Ho Chi Minh (Hickman), (History Learning). Many factors contributed to making this war a unique one in the history of the United States, primarily that it was the first major war lost by the United States. These differences and the fact that there were no boundaries, a lower average age in soldiers and increasing front line contact in the war accounted for an abnormally high percentage of returning veterans afflicted with PTSD; approximately 27% of women and 30% of men were diagnosed with PTSD at some point in their life after the Vietnam War (Cromie). Many people in Vietnam also developed PTSD (History Learning). Both soldiers and civilians who witnessed the war and were affected by the brutality were prone to developing PTSD (History Learning). However, for the purposes of this paper we will focus on the manifestation of PTSD in American Vietnam War veterans in correlation with the Vietnam War.
Most of the Vietnam War consisted of Guerrilla warfare in the jungles of South Vietnam and along the borders of Cambodia and Laos. Troops were constantly under attack and the enemy could not be identified from other Vietnamese civilians because the Viet Cong often did not wear uniforms to identify themselves (Voxmire). American soldiers would have to wade through mud and water to their necks through areas of conflict, constantly on the alert for an attack. Leaches were often a problem in these waters (Voxmire). Newer, deadlier weapons were created such as M48 tank and new and improved machine guns. Also new planes and helicopters were developed, most notably the Bell UH-1 Helicopter and the B-52 Stratofortress (PBS). The new developments in flying technology meant fewer casualties because more lives could be saved because medical attention was usually less than fifteen minutes away now that medical units could travel quickly by helicopter (Scott). However, this also meant 13,167 soldiers returning home fully disabled, whether physically of neurologically because those with highly impairing injuries were often rescued by medical teams unlike soldiers during World War II who usually died as a result of seriously impairing injuries (McGovern). There was a reported 58, 193 American Casualties as a result of the war (Hull).
The Vietnam War was very different from other wars fought by the United States up to that time. First, the average age of the soldier was nineteen, seven years younger than those soldiers who served in World War II (Scott) (Voxmire). War was much more stressful and dangerous as there were no back lines to seek refuge from the conflict and infantrymen were often exposed to this for three hundred or more days (Scott). This was significantly longer than other wars like World War II where soldiers served an average of sixty days at a time in combat (Scott). These stress-inducing conditions had a huge impact on the mental health of returning veterans who also had to deal with the immense losses of their colleagues and friends who were killed in combat. No boundaries in the Vietnam War, unlike other previous wars meant that motivating the public for the war cause was difficult because there was nothing to show for their advancements except death counts (Karnow). Also, the enemy could often not be told apart from the civilians; everyone was the enemy and none could be trusted (Scott). Because of advanced technology, there was more mobility and firepower that resulted in higher casualties for both sides than would have previously resulted without this new technology. Lastly, when Veterans returned with the war lost they were shunned by society and the government, especially because the hippy movement had just taken off, which took a large mental toll on soldiers (Scott). When soldiers returned homes many were often met by protesters who labeled them as ‘baby killers’ (Voxmire).
Because of these differences, veterans returned with a multitude of mental conflicts including depression, anxiety and PTSD. Many vets became alcoholics, drug addicted and jobless (Wright). Divorce rates surged among veteran families (Voxmire). Twenty-seven to thirty percent of returning veterans were diagnosed with PTSD upon returning home. PTSD symptoms for returning Vietnam veterans include nightmares, flashbacks, anxiety, sleep complications, apathy, rage and low motivation (Scott). They also returned with an extreme sense of guilt that was not easily evaded (Spiller). The Veterans Association was not able to deal with this new surge of mental illness and most were not treated right away. Crime rose significantly in the veteran population, a report in June of 1973 reported that thirty-two percent of county federal prison occupants were veterans, more than half of whom had been involved in direct combat. Many veterans formed their own help groups, using Marijuana as an escape from their troubles (Voxmire). Because veterans had to be able to wake at a moment’s notice, many wake throughout the night at any sound (Voxmire).
The Vietnam War has had lasting impacts on the United States and Vietnam that are still evident today. The United States was faced with a large war debt, and the government lost significant trust from the people, especially the military. A law was passed in congress in 1973 that forbade soldiers to be in direct contact for over ninety days without government approval, and that the military needed congressional approval before oversea combat could commence (Sitikoff). Veterans caused significant problems upon returning home as many took up crime, delving further into depression and despair in reaction to the negative attitudes of the public towards them. This attitude was not addressed fully until 1982 when a consensus was reached by the public that the veterans deserve recognition and respect (Sitikoff).
The Vietnamese people were also highly impacted by the Vietnam War. Between one and two million Vietnamese people died, both Northern and Southern Vietnamese, both civilians and soldiers (History Learning). Many Vietnamese veterans also suffered from PTSD and depression, similar to the returning American veterans. Some South Vietnamese, supporters of the Northern Alliance immigrated to the United States. The victory of the North meant a united communist Vietnam under Ho Chi Minh (History Learning).
Works Cited
Cromie, William J. "Mental Casualties of the Vietnam War Persist." Harvard University Gazette 17 Aug. 2006. Print.
Hickman, Kennedy. "Vietnam War-Introduction to the Vietnam War - Summary of the Vietnam War." MilitaryHistoryAbout.com. 2006. Web. 04 June 2010.
History Learning. "The Vietnam War." Digital History. 2006. Web. 04 June 2010.
Hull, Theodore J. "Statistical Information about Casualties of the Vietnam War." National Archives and Records Administration. National Archives, 1998. Web. 11 June 2010.
Karnow, Stanley. "The War Nobody Won." Vietnam: A History. WGBH Educational Association, 1977. 32-35. Print.
McGovern, George. A Time to Heal. Washington Indochina Research Center, 1976. Print.
PBS. "American Experience | PBS | Vietnam Online." PBS. 05. Web. 04 June 2010.
Scott, Wayne J. "PostTraumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD): An Australian Vietnam Veteran's Experience." Vietnam Veterans Association of Australia. Veterans Association, 2001. Web. 01 June 2010.
Sitikoff, Harvard. "The Postwar Impact of Vietnam." Welcome to English « Department of English, College of LAS, University of Illinois. Oxford UP, 1999. Web. 04 June 2010.
Spiller, Harry. Scars of Vietnam: Personal Accounts by Veterans and Their Families. Jefferson, N.C.: McFarland, 1994. Print.
Voxmire, Ron. Personal interview. 09 June 2010.
Wright, David K. War in Vietnam. Chicago: Childrens, 1989. 64-67. Print.
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