Vietnam War Mike Spearman

Interviewed June 5, 2010 Kahn Do is a South Vietnamese immigrant. He runs the tutoring company that I use for math and is 47 years old. I am interviewing him today to talk about his and his father’s thoughts on the war, more specifically their thoughts on the American army and how they handled the war. During the war they were in Vietnam, he was a 13 year old and his dad the general of the South Vietnamese army age 49.

How old are now?
47 years old

What is your profession?
I am a risk analyst for business and run a I tutoring company

When did you come to the US?
15 years ago, in 1996.

How old were you?
13.

Why did you come to the US?
Better education was the main reason. We could not go to college in Vietnam because of how my dad was ranked in (the army). Any offspring could not go to college under the previous regime.

How old is your dad now?
Age 64

Where is he living now?
In Renton

Where were your parents living at the time of the war?
My dad was a General in the Vietnamese army and my mom was living with my grandfather in Da Nang in South Vietnam. Da Nang is south of HoChi Min city (used to be called Saigon).
Did he ever talk to you about the war? He spoke to me a lot about the war. He would tell us war stories and how difficult life was back then – not in a negative tone.

What did he say?
He would talk about how it was to lead an army. Once in a while he would talk about how bad he felt when we lost the war after the US pulled out. Around 1974 the US started pulling out of the war. A lot of people viewed that as a defeat to the North Vietnamese. My dad said it wasn’t a defeat, it was just that the US didn’t want to fight anymore. The US sold us weapons so when they pulled out, we were left with nothing to defend ourselves so after that we sort of collapsed.

What were your dad’s thoughts about the American army?
He never talked to me about that. I don’t believe he held any animosity towards the American army for pulling out. He thought that the US should not have gotten involved in the first place. It was a war between the Vietnamese people – a civil war. They should not have gotten involved and then pulled out. They were trying to get rid of communism and I am all for that. But they should have stayed until the end. The result would have been very different if they had not pulled out. We would have been very different for us in the US. We would not have lost the war and lost our country to the communists. For my family personally, with my dad’s ranking, he would have gone for the presidencyof the country once the war was over. For a lot of the Vietnamese people in the US now, the majority of them were ranked officers in the Vietnamese army. The US had a program where they sponsored high ranking officers in the war to come to the US. That is how we got here and we really appreciated it. A lot of officers when they came to the US, because of the language barrier and new environment, didn’t have skills. They would take jobs like janitors that others didn’t want. Before coming here, they were very powerful and had a lot of authority. The war changed a lot of lives.

What were your dad’s thoughts about the Vietnamese army?
He praised the South Vietnamese army and he absolutely hated the communist army. To me they are all the same, since we are all Vietnamese. I think we should not have relied on the US for support. You should always have option B. My dad feels that way too but he always puts down the communist army. They were more prepared – they fought in the jungle – guerrilla warfare - so it was hard for even high tech armies to fight against.



Judge Ronald Cox is a friend of my fathers and currently 64 years of age. I’m interviewing him on the date of June 3rd, 2010 to see his perspective of the war and what effect it had on him personally. At the time of the war he was 23 years old and serving on the front lines as a captain of an infantry division near the Cambodian border.

I know you spent some time fighting in Vietnam, how old were you?
I went over there at the age of 23 and spent one year there and returned at the age of 24.
What branch?
I was in the US Army.

What was it like at West Point?
I have a book here about it. I was in the class that that book is about. I will say that it was very challenging academically, physically and otherwise. It was a great sense of accomplishment for having successfully completed it. I have friendships to this day with people that I don’t even see anymore, the bond is so strong by going through that common experience.

Why did you decide to go to Vietnam?
It wasn’t my decision. I had to go. I was in the Army and I had to respond to orders. I knew that I was going to go. Every member of my West Point class went for at least one year. Some had to do two tours of duty. It wasn’t a matter of my raising my hand and deciding to go.

Why did you decide to enroll in West Point?
A lot of reasons. It was a great opportunity. Neither of my parents went to college. When the opportunity presented itself for me to win an an appointment and you have to compete for appointment, it was a great honor. I won an appointment from Senator Fong from Hawaii. It was a great challenge and I like challenges.

Did you ever regret doing it?
No.

If you had to go back in time, you would do it again?
Yes. I got a great education. I built relationships with very good friends. Quite frankly it paved the way for other things I have been able to accomplish in life.

Going back to the war, what is one experience that stayed with you?
There was one day where the company that I commanded was out on an operation and the battalion commander above me got shot down by enemy fire and died in a helicopter crash. That made a big impact because he was the only casualty in that whole operation. It just represented to me that those sorts of things happen – it is very arbitrary - that people you get to know sometimes die and the question is how you will handle it.

Did you get any medals?
I have 3 bronze stars and a combat infantryman’s badge and I have some other awards from having been in the war.

How do you get Bronze stars?
One is for heroism in combat. We were attacked and throughout most of a day. I didn’t do anything heroic but I led my command thru a difficult time when we came under enemy fire near the Cambodian border.

Did you ever have to kill anyone?
I never killed anyone personally. But, in fighting during wartime, the company I commanded did kill enemy soldiers either directly or by artillery fire.

Have you ever been back to Vietnam?
No. I don’t want to go back there. It has too many bad memories.

How do you think the Vietnamese felt about you?
30 years after the war, most Vietnamese from then aren’t living now and have no animosity towards Americans. I certainly have no animosity. I think they suffered greatly and are still suffering. War is not a good thing. It is better that it is all behind us. My West Point class had 30 members die in the war. That certainly has a personal impact on me but I don’t harbor any animosity towards the Vietnamese people.

How did they feel about Americans during the war?
There were mixed feelings. My company worked with some Vietnamese. Other Vietnamese s hated the presence of Americans there. You wouldn’t want people coming to your city.

How did you feel after you came back?
I was relieved that I survived without being killed or wounded. One thing I still remember: here in the US we take for granted all we have around us. In a third world country when you see poverty, it can have a lasting effect on you. There is no opportunity for education. They live on very little. It makes you think about assumptions in the US about what normal is.

How were you treated by other Americans after you came back?
I didn’t have any bad experiences but I know others did. There are stories about people who were spat on or harassed because they served in the armed forces during Vietnam. There are very different feelings about the troops in Afghanistan and Iraq now. People now don’t have the same feelings about the troops as they did then.

Did you think the South Vietnamese army was a good ally?
Some were very good and some were very poor soldiers. But that was due to poor leadership for some. If they have good leaders they did well. Americans spent a lot of time and pumped huge amounts of money into the government but after the Americans left, they caved into the North Vietnamese. The North Vietnamese were more disciplined and had far fewer resources yet they won the war. The North had a commitment that the South just didn’t have.

Do you think North Vietnam won?
Yes, they now occupy or run the whole country. That’s a win. There was a discussion between an American soldier and North Vietnamese soldier: the American said that the North Vietnamese never beat the Americans in a major battle. The North Vietnamese soldier said, it doesn’t matter, we still won the war because we now occupy the whole country. So it doesn’t matter if you didn’t win the battle, if you won the war.

What about anti-war protesters?
When I first graduated from West Point, I was stationed in Europe for 18 months. I really didn’t experience protesting. I didn’t have the front row seat. After Vietnam I was offered the opportunity to get an advanced degree and then teach history at West Point. I had to decide if I was going to stay in the army or not. I decided after Vietnam to go to law school and resign from the army.

Why did you decide not to continue in the Army?
I thought about what was going on. Do we really want to spend our lives fighting a war like Vietnam? A lot of members in my class got discouraged and resigned from the Army and decided to do other things. It was a disturbing war that had a big impact on me and other members of my class.

Describe how you got your Bronze stars more in depth.
It was Dec 15, 1968 at 8 am, I was company commander operating near the Cambodian border in Tayniah. The first platoon of my company immediately received automatic weapons fire. In that first exchange, one member of the first platoon was killed immediately. The platoon leader called me and I moved forward to where the shooting was going on and helped direct fire back. This battle went on for 6-7 hours. During that time another person was killed. We were able to gather our people together, return fire and the enemy troops retreated. I moved around and helped direct our response and was awarded the Bronze star for valor.

Would you suggest that someone go to West Point?
Sure, if interested. Just the other day I was at Garfield High School with another judge speaking to a history class about how judges are selected. One student there who I met about a year ago was interested in West Point. He has received an appointment and he will be reporting in July. You have to be motivated to go and be prepared to deal with a heavy academic load and a heavy physical load in terms of physical exercise. I wouldn’t recommend that everyone go there. It depends on your interest. For example, neither my older son or daughter, or my younger son, were interested and I wouldn’t push them.



Tam Bui, interviewed on June 6th, 2010. She’s a Snohomish County district court judge and was in my mother’s book club. I’m interviewing her to understand her perspective as a refugee from South Vietnam.

How old are you?
42

Where did you live in Saigon?
I lived in the city of Saigon in South Vietnam

When did you leave Viet Nam?
I left on August 30, 1975.

How old were you?
I was 7 years old when I left.

Did you come with your family?
On Aug 30th I came with my 7 siblings. My oldest brother was in the airforce and wasn’t with us. Later on we found out he flew a helicopter to our house to pick us up but we weren’t there, we have already left. My parents and siblings were packed into a jeep. Aug 30th was the last day we could leave. The barriers were up. My father was a Major in the VN army. He only spoke a little bit to us about the war. He worked intelligence for the US government. He was very secretive. The only visible sign of him working for the government was that he had a little red phone that only he could touch and pick up whenever it rang. It was a very painful experience for him because his father and grandfather were killed by the communists.

Why did you leave?
We left because the communists were rolling in on August 30th. My father initially didn’t want to leave because Viet Nam was his homeland. If he was going to stay, we were all going to stay. The family structure was such that he was the head of the family. We finally persuaded him to leave. My father was so connected to the politics and he would be taken away by communists and probably be put into a re-education camp and not survive. So we could stay and have a difficult survival or leave and try to establish a life in a different country but not our homeland.

Did you ever encounter the American army?
Because my father worked for the American government,there were a lot of Americans going in and out of our house. There were big Americans with bushy beards. This is from a 7 year old’s perspective.When we escaped and went to the US embassy. We saw a lot of American soldiers guarding the embassy.

What do you mean you escaped?
We got a call on the red phone and were told to go to the embassy. We all got into a jeep. I recall there were roadblocks all around. For some reason, we were following this limousine with someone important inside and the soldiers at the roadblocks assumed we were with the limo and let us pass. I never found out who the occupants were in the limousine but that is how we got through. The US embassy was packed with people trying to get in. We finally got in and we waited in this big room. Then from there we were instructed to go to this area where there was a big barge to transport us to a US ship. It was like an escape because there were so many Vietnamese civilians trying to get out of the country. It was chaotic with lots of people trying to push their way in.

Was there a program for officers in the Vietnamese Army?
Yes. Especially on the last day, it was because our family had a connection due to my father being an officer that we were able to get out.
What was it like when you first came to US?
Nobody knew English. We had to assimilate to the culture and language. We were sponsored by the Emanual Episcopal Church. Before coming to Washington, we stopped along the way at an army base in Guam, Phillipines, Fort Chaffee Arkansas. That was the route we took. The only persons who knew English were my father and oldest brother and oldest sister. We went through ESL. When you are young, you pick up language very easily. We were sponsored by the church and we worked for them in exchange for them providing housing. When you are younger, you don’t know what to expect. You have more tools when you are older. But, at the same time, being younger, it is easier to adapt. My older siblings were very sad to leave VN because they had their established friends and life. I was only 7, so it was not that big of a deal. It was easy for me to assimilate. I still retained my culture at home. I learned Vietnamese at home. We still went to Buddhist temple and festivities. I lived in two separate cultures.

There were a lot of other Vienamese families, right?
Your family wasn’t by itself? No. Lots of families settled on the East coast, California, Louisiana and Texas. My theory is that the Vietnamese liked Louisiana due to being fishermen. California had a lot of immigrant populations. It has one of the biggest Vietnamese populations. The Vietnamese gravitated towards the east coast due to connections in the government.

How do you think other Americans felt towards you when you first came?
I lived in Mercer Island, Bellevue and Redmond. I didn’t have a very negative experience in terms of other Americans. The only negative experience I had was during college (UW)where comments were made about my ethnicity during football games. I have heard stories of others having very negative experiences or traumatic emotional experiences in terms of racist comments. My family and I were very lucky.

How did you feel towards the Americans when you settled here?
I didn’t really view it through those kinds of lenses in terms of ethnicity. I was aware of my ethnicity. But it wasn’t until I got to college when students were more active politically and I took classes in women studies that made me more attentive. Growing up in junior high and high school, I didn’t experience the attitude that she doesn’t look like us or sound like us even though Bellevue was pretty white.

There is a lot of debate about who won the war?
Whenever there is a war, there are really no winners. Militarily who won the war? A person in the military would say it was the US due to sheer power. But in terms of the minds of the people, I think that we Americans came away from the war with more scars.Going in it wasn’t something that the Americans had expected. Any time you go in and occupy a foreign country, you try to strategize militarily based on the culture but you never really know. We Americans didn’t win in the hearts and minds of the people. The same thing can be said of the wars in Afganistan and Irag. We have all the fire power. Winning is more than might. In that sense, Americans did lose. But in losing, we gained a lot of lessons that we could take away and learn from. In terms of being a refugee, I can’t really say that we refugees won. We were ripped away from our homeland. Looking back now, it gave me an opportunity to start my life again. We were given opportunities to have a good living. So personally we won.

How did Vietnamese people feel about US coming in and occupying the country?
You will get different answers from different generations. I recently attended a talk at the Mukileo library. The older people feel more scarred from the experience. The average age in Vietnam is the early 40s. So the majority of viewpoints, they didn’t experience that burden and have a very positive viewpoint about the war.

Where is your dad?
My dad no longer living. He would have been 82. My mom is 80.When we came here, all our documents were destroyed because when we were on the barge being shot at and all the rain, the documents were destroyed.